WP 46 | How to Market to BIPOC Clients with Diana Rice
Hello lovely listeners. In today's enriching episode our brilliant host, Whitney Owens, engages in a profound conversation with the vibrant and experienced Diana Rice, a therapist with a diverse background and a deep understanding of the BIPOC community. Diana is a certified integrative mental health professional who prides herself in providing a "safe and inclusive space where clients can find healing and empowerment." Based in South Florida, she speaks warmly of her surroundings, noting the diverse population and the unique challenges and beauties that come with it.
In this episode, Whitney and Diana paint a vivid tapestry of experiences that explores the life journey of a BIPOC therapist, touching upon topics like personal resilience, fostering diversity in practice, and the intricate dance between cognitive behavioral therapy and cross-cultural sensitivities.
Embracing Diversity with Grace
Both Diana and Whitney echo the sentiment that as therapists, there is a need to cater to the diverse clientele, including the BIPOC community. They urge fellow therapists to approach this with a willingness to learn, grow, and foster inclusivity in their practices, highlighting the opportunities for healing and empowerment that lie within.
Diana passionately advocates for fostering diversity and inclusivity within the therapy space. She encourages therapists to actively seek out diverse groups and to offer their guidance and mentorship to aspiring counselors from various backgrounds. "Go to the black colleges. And see who's a mental health counselor and then become that qualified supervisor for them", she advises. Diana emphasizes the importance of respecting and acknowledging the wealth of knowledge and cultural awareness these new counselors bring to the table, fostering a space of understanding and mutual respect.
Creating a Safe Haven for Diverse Faith Backgrounds
Further into their discussion, Diana touches upon the interweaving of diverse faith backgrounds into therapy practice. She shares her approach to counseling clients from various religious backgrounds, emphasizing her role as a listener and guide, rather than imposing her beliefs onto others. "You're hiring me to help you because you're in a crisis. So this is not about, you know, I can help you with the clinical skills that I have. Yeah. Right. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. That is my guide post. That is my stability", she notes, underlining her commitment to providing a space where clients can feel accepted and understood, irrespective of their faith backgrounds.
Marketing to BIPOC Clients with Understanding and Inclusivity
Defining 'BIPOC': Diana and Whitney delve into the essence of the term 'BIPOC', which encapsulates Black, Indigenous People of Color. The discussion gradually steers towards fostering inclusivity and understanding within the community, urging for a mature and respectful dialogue.
Building Inclusivity in Practice: Diana passionately promotes diversity and inclusivity within the therapy space, encouraging therapists to mentor aspiring counselors from diverse backgrounds. She advises, "Go to the black colleges. And see who's a mental health counselor and then become that qualified supervisor for them".
Interweaving Faith: Diana discusses how she respects and incorporates diverse faith backgrounds into her therapy practices, underlining her role as a listener and guide.
Cultural Understanding for Therapists:
Diana voices her concerns about the DSM not taking into account the spiritual and cultural aspects of various communities. She highlights the importance of understanding and respecting different cultures, urging professionals to be critical thinkers who are willing to question existing norms: "I had question after question after question, and one professor loved that I was spry and feisty like that. Questioning things."
Diana opened up about her initial experiences in the field around 2004, where she worked in a school with a significant number of therapists and psychiatric nurses. During this time, she observed a disconnect between the psychiatric system and the unique experiences and perspectives of people from different backgrounds, particularly those from the Caribbean. She stresses the importance of understanding where others are coming from, saying, "I just need to listen. To see where they're coming from..."
Tips when working with the BIPOC Community:
Understand Before Labeling: Diana advocates for looking beyond diagnoses, urging therapists to first understand a client's background and personal experiences.
Building Community Relations: Engage with the community, seeking to genuinely understand their experiences through active and empathetic listening.
Encourage Critical Thinking: Encourage a spirit of questioning and critical thinking, especially regarding existing norms and systems within the psychiatric field.
Promote Cultural Understanding: Develop a deeper understanding and respect for the varied cultural and spiritual perspectives that clients bring into the therapy space.
Conclusion:
In this heartwarming and insightful episode, Whitney and Diana have woven a rich tapestry of experiences, offering listeners a glimpse into the world of a BIPOC therapist navigating the complex landscapes of identity, diversity, and inclusivity in their practice. Through personal anecdotes and wise insights, this conversation invites listeners to rethink and reshape their perspectives on inclusivity and understanding.
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Links and Resources Mentioned:
Through the Valley on Social Media: @throughthevalleytherapy
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WP 46| How to Marketing to BIPOCC Clients with Diana Rice
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Whitney Owens: I am excited about today's episode where I'm gonna be interviewing my friend Diana Rice. I wanna share a little bit about her with you, and then we're gonna jump into a good conversation here. Um, so Diana is an L M H C and she is a Bipo Christian therapist and the proud owner of Through the Valley Therapy.
Whitney Owens: Since its establishment in July, 2020, with over 16 years of experience in the mental health field, she specializes in working with teens experiencing angst, individuals with complex P P T S D or C P T S D and women's issues. As a certified integrative mental health professional, she combines evidence-based therapeutic techniques to provide holistic and personalized care.
Whitney Owens: She's passionate for helping others. Drive their commitment to safety and inclusive space where clients can find healing and empowerment. Thank you for coming on the show.
Diana Rice: Thank you for having me. I'm excited about this.
Whitney Owens: Oh, me too, me too. So, um, tell people, because I didn't include this part, where are you located and kind of what brought you into the mental health field?
Diana Rice: Oh, okay. Um, I am in lo located in South Florida in Broward County. Specifically, I grew up, I came here in 1982 from New York, Queens, New York, and I've been here in the Deerfield Beach area ever since. So South Florida, if anyone knows how South Florida is, you know, people are like, oh, you live most people's vacations.
Diana Rice: But honestly, living here full time, Yeah, it's, it's nice when you get to the beach, but we also have such a diverse population of human beings. I think more than any other part of the country, I think differently than LA or, or actually New York City. It's just very unique and different. I love it. I love being here, but at the same time, we have our own challenges.
Diana Rice: It should actually be its own state, in my opinion. Wow.
Whitney Owens: All right. And tell people a little bit about your practice.
Diana Rice: So I, uh, God called me to open up through the valley therapy in July of 2020. In the midst of a pandemic. I was working at an alternative high school, um, in Broward County working with teenagers.
Diana Rice: That is my specialty is adolescents. And, um, I opened it up. So I was taking clients in the evening while I was working at the high school in the afternoon, you know, during the day. And then, um, Things happen, you know, the pandemic, hello. We all went through a global traumatic experience and by 2021 I was, let's just say let go of my position.
Diana Rice: And now I see why. And I'm like, okay. And I had through the valley therapy, um, already established. So I'm like grateful, but at the same time, I had to mourn the loss of that, of that job. I gotta tell you how good and gracious the Lord is. Um, just a few weeks ago, the principal of the school texted me and said, Hey, will you be willing to train the teachers?
Diana Rice: Hmm. Took me about a week to wrestle. Prayer. 'cause my flesh was like, are you kidding me? But my spirit said, this is not about you Diana. These teachers need to hear your encouragement and have the resources. So we worked it out and I actually last Friday, went back on that campus and trained the teacher and mindfulness, self-care and resiliency.
Diana Rice: I. Hmm. I love that.
Whitney Owens: I, man, so many good things we could say about this. Like the idea that God uses the bad things to create something beautiful. Right. And then facing the very thing that caused us pain. Oof. Right. And, and letting God heal us and do something beautiful through that. Hmm. I love it.
Diana Rice: Yeah. I mean, think about it.
Diana Rice: Everything that's happened in the last three years, it is a learning experience for each one of us and understanding. The why within ourselves, even as therapists. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. Like we're about to talk about bipo therapy or therapists and how to market to them or wherever this, this conversation's gonna flow to, but having that understanding of things are rising up in everyone's hearts.
Diana Rice: No matter what career you have, no matter what color you are, no matter what political stance you are, you know, putting your flag on, no matter if you're from the north, south, east, or west, things are rising up and it is our job, each one of us, to deal with what's inside our heart. First, Psalm 1, 3, 9, 23, and 24.
Diana Rice: Search my heart, God, and know my anxious thoughts, right. So it's that understanding of, of that we get to choose every day whether we're going to forgive or we're gonna hang on to that pain. And we're gonna keep hanging on until we face it and learn from it, especially, especially if we claim the name of Jesus Christ.
Whitney Owens: Amen. Yeah. All right. So I'm excited about this topic on how to market to Bipo clients. Um, so this was, I'm assuming, is helpful not only for therapists that have that specific niche or a Bipo therapist themselves, but also for any therapist because. We all need to be marketing to this population 'cause there's a need.
Whitney Owens: Oh. So, um, let's, let's first just identify if there is someone listening that's like, what do you mean when you say bipo? Can you talk
Diana Rice: about that? Sure. It means black, indigenous people of color. I. So it is just understanding that we are all one in this country. Because if you're listening to this, we are in America, the, the best country in this whole world.
Diana Rice: My mom did not come to this country. Right. For this freedom and to opportunities and, and we all have 'em no matter where you're coming from. Okay. But it is. Understanding that there are certain groups of people that don't have the resources or the understanding or the education, and it's not a like let's blame and shame game.
Diana Rice: It is more of understanding that this is the truth. It's okay to face that truth without being in fear, which is false evidence appearing real and understanding. It's not an attack on other human beings. It's just coming to this understanding and having a, a real mature conversation, but it's like pain and fear.
Diana Rice: That's what I see. Pain and fear, because honestly, if you see me and you look at me, I'm ethnically ambiguous. Okay. People think I'm from everywhere. Honestly. The second they're like, oh, are you from the Caribbean? I'm like, yeah, I am. Well, are you Native American? I'm like, well, I am that too. I'm 24%. But yeah, I could say I am.
Diana Rice: Um, well, are you a white girl with a good tan? And I'm like, yeah, well, I am, you know, 63% European. It's like I am a mix of, and I'm 10% African. Like I did my D N A because people always thought I was from different places. It's a, it's a beautiful thing, but at the same thing from my own journey here for the last, you know, few decades, more than a few, but it has been like, okay, where do I fit in?
Diana Rice: Hmm. You know, and I realized like if it came down to the nitty gritty of things, I am a brown girl. I am. I'm I'm, and so I'm part of the Bipo community, and that's where I was raised. You know, I was raised in the inner city. I was raised in that population that I love so much, and that is why I think I fought so hard to get to this place for them, especially the adolescence.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. And so I'm, I'm curious, when people approach you and ask you questions about where you're from, is that uncomfortable? I mean, is that appropriate? Like I'd love your feedback
Diana Rice: on that. Yeah, I think at this point in my life, I mean, even when I was younger, honestly, I remember the first bully in New York putting a knife to my throat and calling me an effing Hindu.
Diana Rice: And I'm sitting there going, what is that? I didn't know. I was like, probably in. Third grade, and I'm just like, what does that mean? What? And I didn't know. And so when I figured out what that was, I'm like, oh my gosh, this kid is coming after me. And I'm not even that. It's like, why don't you call me the other derogatory names that I've heard so on.
Diana Rice: So when pe, this was like a conversation starter for many. So when they asked me where I'm from, this is how I answer, I'm like, well, where do you think I'm from? Haha. And so then they're uncomfortable. But I, I, my personality doesn't, I've trained myself not to take it personal. Mm-hmm. You know, they're curious.
Diana Rice: And I, and as a therapist like that is, I'm always asking the question, why, why do they need to know this information? You know? And so it's like, what is it? You know? And Oh, I'm just curious. Well, are you this? I mean, and it shows me too, where the human is in their mindset. Like how much. Education they have or where they are in their journey on this earth with, with who they are.
Diana Rice: And like I said, like how much knowledge they know or wisdom they have. And it's not a judgment, it's more of a like, okay, like I'm not gonna take it to heart. Uh, if they're gonna call me derogatory names, which has happened in the past, when they come to me and, and I'm asked questions and or, you know, it, it's, it's all about the attention of the heart.
Diana Rice: So, if they're coming with this vile in, which has happened and called me, and I, I don't wanna curse, but you know, I've been called a sand N word. Okay. And I did not. And so people think I'm from the Middle East a lot, and so they're automatically go there. And that at now I see it as, oh, okay, this is a very ignorant person, you know?
Diana Rice: And this is how they know how to communicate and they need therapy. So being, yeah, I think you're,
Whitney Owens: yeah, go ahead. Be sorry about that. I love what you're saying here about. So often it's about the other person and their journey and what they're going through. And as hard as this can be for us, having compassion when they're ignorant or having compassion when they don't understand and they even, they're hurting us, you know, and us being able to transfer that, giving it back to God.
Whitney Owens: Choosing to love, especially in your therapeutic work. I'm sure you see it with clients asking you this and, and I love how you're talking about it shows what they're focusing on. Like you are losing the human connection here,
Diana Rice: right? Yeah. So it doesn't make me uncomfortable, like, because I know there are people, most people are curious.
Diana Rice: Um, and I'm proud of where I'm from. I am, I'm a very and, and not proud, as in prideful, like pride comes before the fall. It's more of like, no, we each should be proud that we are. It's like what the Lord talks about in the word. It's like we all have these different gifts. We all have these different, you know, things happening, but we're one, we're all one in Jesus Christ.
Diana Rice: I think that's like my favorite verse, escalations. I wanna say 3 28. You know, it's like we're all one. I remember when I first became a Christian, I hung onto that verse. So we were talking about just if someone asked me where I'm from, if it's uncomfortable, and I wanna say, no, not, not, I don't think it ever has been because I am an extroverted person and I love connecting with strangers.
Diana Rice: So, uh uh, actually that. That, just like I said, if it's the intention of the heart, like if they came at me in a rude way, which I've had people like in North Carolina while I visited there a lot, and someone's like, Hey, do you speak of that Mexican? And I'm like, what do you mean by that? Mm-hmm. What do you mean?
Diana Rice: What do you mean by that? And, and I knew the guy was just this guy, this mountain guy who doesn't know any better and he's just a hardworking man and I'm not gonna put him down because of that and assume all these things. I'm going to ask questions and learn to communicate better because that is what is needed in this world, in this day and age right now, especially when we have the media having us go against each other.
Diana Rice: You know, and everyone's believing what they're seeing. Please don't believe everything you think.
Whitney Owens: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. All right. So I would love to talk about marketing to Bipo clients. Okay. Um, and, and I'm actually curious, um, about kind of the demographics of your own practice. What types of clients are you working with?
Diana Rice: Wow. So I would say it's 50%. White and 50% bipo. Okay. And, and then I have teenagers, so I have, I think my youngest client is about 13 and my oldest client is about 45. And they, it's just a beautiful. Rainbow of colors and Oh, I love that. And, and it's just, you know, I take each human as they come to me because I do see the color.
Diana Rice: 'cause I'm not gonna pretend that I'm blind by that. No I'm not. But I do try my best to see their soul and their culture because honestly, I see the difference from my, um, say my black male. Very poor into the inner city. Maybe part of gang members or, or you know, in a gang area. And then my super, super rich white girl that's living on the Intercoastal.
Diana Rice: Two different worlds, but they come to me and I, I have learned how to navigate that because I educate myself, I ask questions. I take a lot of Cs, continual education units because I want to be the best therapist I can be for my client. And to do that, you can't assume you know everything just because you already have the degree and have some education that might be 10 years old.
Diana Rice: Everything is shifting and changing in the culture, you know? Mm-hmm. And so it is, it's really doing your inner work. And then if you really wanna work with the Bipo community as a therapist, I suggest that you get certified in it. Hmm. To have that under and to check yourself because like Whitney, I love your honesty.
Diana Rice: You're like, yeah, this was a hard place to navigate in the beginning when all this was happening. That is what we need. We need more human beings that are the opposite of you understanding like, oh, I just need to listen. I don't need to be right. I just need to listen. To see where they're coming from, because that, that was in the beginning of my career.
Diana Rice: I would say in 2004 when I was working at a another Broward County School. Um, as a intern, I was, I would say there might have been, there was like 10 therapists. A, um, psychiatrist, psych psychiatric nurses in this school. This school is a cognitive behavioral therapy school and the, and the students that ended up at that school, they were having to see a psychiatrist.
Diana Rice: Anyway, so I was there and I was the only intern at that time for that year. And I was looking around and I'm going, okay, wait, wait. Alright. And it's hard because you had a very mixed population, but. A lot of 'em, like from like say the Caribbean, they do not trust the system and I don't blame 'em. I was taught not to trust the system.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm. At all the Western, I hate to say colonized because these are the key words that we use, but at the same time, it's having that understanding what that means. It's that it's a Western mentality that started when we have to go back to the history of our beautiful country. Understand the privileges without being defensive.
Diana Rice: Like honestly, it's not like we're, I'm trying to take your place, president of the United States or anything like that. I am just trying to gather us together as Americans, but as an understanding of each other and with respect and love. Right. And that's what's missing. It is so much anger boiling over.
Diana Rice: It is so much assumptions. I mean, I wanna just sit people down and teach 'em all cognitive distortions and to challenge them. Mm-hmm. So, so those are the experiences that, like when I first started and then I was realizing, I'm like, oh my goodness. A, a, a set of people have the same diagnosis. I'm looking at these files and they were all of color.
Diana Rice: I'm like, okay. I'm like, wait, why do all these young black boys have a D h D? You know? And I'm like, okay. I, I'm like, I, I understand what a D H D, and I'm not saying when I, when I talk about the diagnosis, right. To me it's like, why are we going focusing so far into the diagnosis and not try to understand that they had a high ACE score, an adverse childhood experience score.
Diana Rice: That was never taught in my school. You know, it was taught to me that big fat book. The d s m. Yeah. And that is supposed to be my Bible. That was what I was, I was told through my education. Right. I think all of us listening, if you are a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, I do not care where you are in your, in the, in the, in the realm of mental health professionals.
Diana Rice: We have this D S M I get it. We need that for boundaries of some sort to help us, guide us. Because if you just get clients and you don't know which way to go, then you're just gonna be, uh, spinning your wheels and you're gonna be on a hamster wheel trying to help this client. At the same time, I challenged my professors and my supervisors like, why is it?
Diana Rice: And I would open up, 'cause I think back then it was the d s m when I first started three t r. 14. I don't even know. 'cause you know, that was a long time ago and it keeps changing. All right. Don't get me started. Why? It keeps changing, but I get it. I, I mean, it's a whole system and this is what the Bipo community doesn't trust because I opened it up and I'm like, well, who wrote this?
Diana Rice: And, and I started asking questions and I'm like, okay, so you're telling me all these white people. Wrote this book, but you're not taking consideration my, the spiritual part of the Caribbean part of my culture. You're not taking or the African part of my culture. Right. You're not taking into consideration of my friend who's an Asian, who's taught not to look into the eyeballs at all.
Diana Rice: Right? You're not. It's just so many different things. I had question after question after question, and one professor loved that I was spry and feisty like that. Questioning things. The other professor was like, well, you're in the wrong field. Whoa.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. We should be questioning things. Amen. Mm-hmm. All critical thinking.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Definitely, definitely.
Diana Rice: all right, so for,
Whitney Owens: for therapists listening and they're like, how do I, how do I help draw in bipo clients? And especially I would say for. White therapists. Hmm. Who want to meet the needs of the community more, but they don't really know, like, you know, and I can just say from, from my experience, and we talked about this a little in advance, it's like I feel like I'm educating myself enough, but then I still feel very uncomfortable.
Whitney Owens: Did I say the right thing? Did I offend somebody? Like how do I say these words in an appropriate way on my website? What kind of advice do you have for us on how to like market to this population? I. I
Diana Rice: would say if you really wanna market to the Bipo community, if you are a Caucasian, white, whatever you wanna call your vanilla, whatever you wanna call yourself, go into the community.
Diana Rice: No. Like go be in the community, go to a church service of. Say a Spanish service, go into the ser, into the community. Mental health. I mean, if you're in a private practice, you've gone to the place where you can pick and choose, but why not go to a Saturday community fair and just really say, Hey, I really want to know, and then be quiet.
Diana Rice: God gave us two ears for a reason. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because we come with a lot of knowledge and wisdom because we worked hard. Listen, I am a therapist. You're our therapist. I worked really, really hard for this degree, for this job, for this career. But if you really, truly want to help the Bipo community, you got to have a better understanding of their suffering and not judge it, but actually try to have that empathy, that unconditional positive regard.
Diana Rice: And really sit with it, really try to understand and not be the martyr. Not come and try to be the savior of it, but to just sit and be still and say, okay, yeah, you do have the right to feel this way as an African male, that you have to be scared when you walk out or as the mother. 'cause I have sat with plenty of black moms who worry, and I've had to teach this in my own office.
Diana Rice: With black teenagers and, and then that, that anger that they have because they're like, why do I have to like, and they, and, and the innocence that's taken from them, when the parent finds out that they get pulled over or something happens and that they never got that special talk, that if you get pulled over mm-hmm.
Diana Rice: You put your hands up. And it's a whole thing that we have to teach that white people never have to teach to their teenagers or their kids ever. Am I blaming white people? No, I'm not blaming anybody. I have to get you to have that understanding and listen to the people. Listen, if you, that's what I'm, I'm trying to get at.
Diana Rice: Yesterday, for example, I went and spoke in front of 150 middle schoolers at a, um, Christian Charter school and I, and I noticed, I was like, oh my goodness. I'm, I'm looking around and out of 150, I would say about 125 were bipo students because, and I looked around and I, and then they were asking questions.
Diana Rice: They're like, well, what do we do when my culture doesn't trust the system and I need help? Yeah. Oh, but I'm so
Whitney Owens: glad this person felt they could ask you
Diana Rice: that question. Yeah, but I'm going, Ugh. Because there's not a lot of us therapists out there. There isn't like I have it. It takes a long time and a hard and, and.
Diana Rice: First of all, if they don't speak English, that's, that's one thing. Right? So I do speak Spanish. I try my best, and, but I don't do Spanish therapy. So when I do get the parents in, I'm just trying my best to communicate. The, the, the teen usually does speak English and Spanish, but my point being is that there isn't enough resources out there.
Diana Rice: I do know plenty of, plenty of Caucasian white. Counselors, therapists that want to help this community, and I, I give them kudos. I, they're, I love it. I love that they're wanting to open their mind and really learn, and for you to market yourself like that, I honestly think, you know, going to need to get certifications just like anything else.
Diana Rice: Like, I can't sit there and market myself as a, you know, CB um, C B T therapist, but I can, because I got that. Certification. Right. Or a mindfulness therapist. I went and worked on getting that the same or with a tele telehealth therapy. Right. We all have to be certified. I know down here in Florida, that's, that's part of the law.
Diana Rice: I was, you know, so we have to get certified in that. So why not do the work and get certified from a Bipo counselor? And, and earn that certification. So then you can say, oh no, I am bipo informed. Just like trauma. Trauma informed.
Whitney Owens: Hmm. So Diana, you might have a good little side hustle on your hands.
Diana Rice: Oh, wow.
Diana Rice: Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like.
Whitney Owens: I'm sure there needs to be more training out there. I'll tell you that. There is a
Diana Rice: lot, actually. There is. Okay. Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like learning where to go and you're gonna have to get prepared to feel uncomfortable because we have been trained in our school systems, in our schools in a one certain way, like I said before, that western way that that D s M way, that medical way, and we have to have an understanding like.
Diana Rice: Many of us from the BiPAP community, I mean, think of a Native American, they were here first. They have had healing shamans. Mm-hmm. Way before the 1920s. Medical system came around and shut down aromatherapy and homeopathic therapy and all these other things, like they knew what herbs to use. My grandma is an herbalist in, in her country.
Diana Rice: Well, she's passed, but she was an herbalist in her country. Wow. And a midwife. And so why do I, you know, she was never there to teach me these things, but it's in my blood. So understanding your own ancestry. Mm-hmm. And your ancestors and, and people get uncomfortable, especially in the Western Church because we have developed this whole 1950s mentality.
Diana Rice: And I mean, it, it is a, it's beautiful, but at the same time it disrespects others that were not part of that system growing up, but we're so. Blinded with blinders of focusing, this is how it should be. Mm-hmm. And actually, we have to think beyond 200 years, 300 years, 400 years. And if you claim the name of Jesus, please read your Bible in context and understand the history of it.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm. Okay. Understand that the word essential oils is in there. And I'm not talking about me being some woowoo new age girl. It's just like really understand food was talked about in the Bible and just understanding that people come from different cultures and the, and the reason the discomfort rises up is fear.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm. Plain and simple. It's fear. Yeah. For a therapist that's listening to me right now, you know, just sit and think about your own ancestors, where you come from, what was taught in in your generation's past, right? And then. Look around you and see who you are serving or who you want to serve, because as a therapist, we're not in this to serve ourselves.
Diana Rice: And if you are, then you, now I'm going to say you're in the wrong field.
Whitney Owens: Well, you definitely can say that about that.
Diana Rice: So,
Whitney Owens: yeah. I do have another question that kind of came to mind. So as you know, I do consulting and I love helping people build group practices and a big topic that came up a couple years ago that really, um, I did, I mean I can't say I did a ton of training, but I did do some research on the importance of diversity within, within your team.
Whitney Owens: And actually businesses that have more diversity, have greater profit, greater creativity, and of course in the therapist world, we can serve more clients. With more diversity in our practice and it helps us, like you were saying, it helps us to think about the way that we market, the way that we do things.
Whitney Owens: 'cause we understand different people, different perspectives. Um, so that became important to me years ago. Um, and so I actually have a couple of therapists have two black therapists. Um, and I also have a therapist that's partially Asian. Yeah. Know, I'm, I'm doing my best to bring more diversity to the table.
Whitney Owens: Um, and so I would love to kind of talk for a few minutes about. What advice would you give to a group practice owner who only has white therapists in their practice? And Diana, I see this a lot and it breaks my
Diana Rice: heart. Well, it's, it's a hard place too, because you gotta think that a lot of, um, To get to a Master's degree.
Diana Rice: Right. It's hard work and if you don't have the funds or resources to get there, it, it's like, honestly, I'm not comparing myself to the person that had all the money and the scholarship or the college fund. Right. I had to, um, you know, it took me about 10 years to get a bachelor and five years to get the master's because I, I didn't wanna get into debt, so I did one class at a time.
Diana Rice: And we all have this different journey. So when you see a group practice of all, maybe that's all they wanna serve, honestly, they might just wanna serve the white population, and that's fine. Like if that's what you wanna do, that's fine. Like, I'm not gonna say, you should have this and this and this. I'm not that person where I'm gonna try to force inclusion and all that.
Diana Rice: But if you're trying to have a diverse population, it's seeking it out. Go to the black colleges. And see who's a mental health counselor and then become that qualified supervisor for them, and then have the respect enough, even though they're brand new, maybe in the knowledge of, or the experience part, but they're not, you know, they're very well versed in their own culture.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm. You can sit there together as a qualified supervisor and your intern if she is black, Asian, Hispanic, Latinx. It's so many different names to be called, like, you know, and you could tell how old I am, just because of the way I'm saying black African American, what? You know, I can't help it. And if you get offended by that, then you're going to have to look within yourself.
Diana Rice: I know I'm trying to change, but you can't expect other humans to be perfect right away. And that is the dialogue we must have and the forgiveness we must have for each other that's missing. So anyway, I would sit with an intern or go and say, Hey, listen, I know that you are a black college. I would love to learn how can I help?
Diana Rice: Or can I have an intern to come to my practice? Or can I sit in and listen to things that I should be learning? And guess what, you might feel that, that you're hearing anger. But our cultures are different. Like I'm, I'm not gonna make excuses, but at the same time, like us Latin, we're passionate. That's how we are.
Diana Rice: That's that's who we are. And some people don't like it. And that's okay if you don't. You have, every human has the right to their feelings and their thoughts. All of us do. But if you really wanna learn, then you're gonna have to learn how to be comfortable in the uncomfortable. Amen.
Whitney Owens: Goodness. When you were talking, my heart just kind of lit up thinking about community.
Whitney Owens: I'm like, what do people think? Kevin's gonna be
Diana Rice: like a bunch of
Whitney Owens: white people. I'm like, no, I hope not. You know, like that's silly. Like we all have got to embrace one another even when we're uncomfortable, what you're just saying. And when I think about like events or church, how can we bring people from all different backgrounds together and learn and grow together?
Whitney Owens: So this is about. Racial diversity, but it's also about political diversity, about the different faith backgrounds. You know, people think a certain denomination can't be with another one. And so this is just a topic I've been thinking a lot about, and even with the summit coming up, like being intentional about bringing all different types of diversity to the table, knowing that God unites us.
Whitney Owens: Yes.
Diana Rice: And without losing yourself, because that's what I see too as a Christian therapist. Can I tell you, I have learned so much in these three years because the, you know, the person that's coming to me and they're like, oh, you're a Christian. I had to learn that it's not the same denomination or that I have been in my community with, right?
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm.
Diana Rice: A client who's becoming a priest right now. Mm-hmm. Okay. And that's Catholicism, which I'm fine with because it's not me to be here. To judge them. To judge 'em. And I have, uh, you know, other people that are in the, um, the, the hyper charismatic movement. Okay. And then I have people that are, uh, Presbyterians.
Diana Rice: And so they, and this is how I usually utilize, because they know that I'm, and I'm, and when they ask me what my belief system is, I'm like, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. I read my Bible, I pray for my clients. I am a big prayer warrior. I go, but you're not hiring me to know about me. You're hiring me to know about you.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm. You're hiring me to help you because you're in a crisis. So this is not about, you know, I can help you with the clinical skills that I have. Yeah. Right. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. That is my guide PO Post. That is my stability. That is what has helped me, healed me, and that's who I follow. But doesn't mean I can't learn from the hundreds and hundreds of cultures out there.
Diana Rice: Mm-hmm. And the way they believe, because I know who I am in Christ. And so religion or, I mean, I have, I had clients back in the day when I was working at the high school. They were, what was it? Black Hebrew, Israelites. I learned a lot from this teenager and, and the anger he was processing and, and the, and the thing is, the only reason he talked to me was because I'm half Puerto Rican.
Diana Rice: He's like, oh, you're one of the 12 tribes. I'm not gonna sit there and be like, that's, that's the lie. That's whatever. Because I'm not, that is his story. That is his journey. I will pray for that client and that the Lord will become real. I, I pray for that for everybody, honestly. So learning about things, so when you hear something that makes you uncomfortable, you have two choices to ignore it and think you're right.
Diana Rice: Or to actually educate yourself on it, get some knowledge, and then pray about it and bring it the thoughts captive to Jesus if you're a Christian. Yeah, so
Whitney Owens: I can just imagine clients that sit with you feel a lot of acceptance because you have so many different backgrounds within you and that you bring to the table.
Whitney Owens: I think people probably feel a lot of
Diana Rice: freedom with you. Uh, yeah, I, I think so. I try really hard. Listen, Carl, Carl Rogers was the first, I remember when I first started in, in my master's and I think it was also in my undergrad. I have an, um, a bachelor's in social science and a minor in women's studies. So even back then, I was taking ethics, minority, and ethics and just, um, like race and media, things like that.
Diana Rice: Classes that just like opened up my mind and I was just like, yeah. 'cause I was struggling trying to, you know, most of us come into this field because we either have issues or there were issues in our with loved ones. I don't think it, and. You know, I shared this yesterday with those 150 middle schoolers because they were wondering, um, why did I get into this field?
Diana Rice: And I told them, like in seventh grade, there was a, I was a peer counselor and then one of our peers drowned at the lake. And at that moment, that teacher said, Hey, Diana, everything we taught you, you're going to have to utilize in peer counseling. I'm grieving, but at the same time I am, you know, that pressure from a, an adult male is telling me this.
Diana Rice: And so I took it seriously. And then things like that were happening, uh, constantly in, in my walk. And I, and I even in 10th grade, I'm like, I'm gonna grow up to be a psychologist. But then, you know, I went off that beaten path for a while because I had my own stuff being raised, you know, by a single immigrant mom and my own complex P T S D.
Diana Rice: That I did not know I had at the time, but now looking back, I see that it's like mm-hmm. That's what it's, that's what it is. So just, you know, we have to build trust and overcome the stigma. Mm-hmm. That's, that's so important because
Diana Rice: that trust is so severed in the Bipo community. And we have a lot of young people suffering. I, I could speak about my client, you know, they come to me and you're right. That freedom that they feel, because I, I'm like, I understand. I'm not gonna sit here and diagnose because we are so quick in, especially in community mental health because it is, remember it is a business too.
Diana Rice: So it's like, okay, insurance companies, we need to, um, hurry up, get them a diagnosis, then we have to send 'em to a psychiatrist, get them medicated. And so if you're constantly not being listened to, but this is now you're trusting 'cause like, I go to the doctor, I pay money to trust the doctor that they know what they're doing.
Diana Rice: So people come to us trusting that we know what we're doing, and if we're automatically labeling and disabling, they believe it. They believe these things. And instead of taking the time to really understand like, okay, why are they in this anxiety at this moment? Because to me, anxiety and depression are symptoms.
Diana Rice: Not diagnosis. I can't, I feel like I can't diagnose someone until probably like fourth, fifth, sixth time I've met them and really got to know 'em because depending on their history, so like I have a client right now, uh, we were on our fourth right before here, and she is a white woman. Okay. But she had a hardcore background, like a lot of abuse and she.
Diana Rice: Went into drugs and alcohol and, and all these things were happening to her. But in her teen years, she was automatically put into rehab, diagnosed all this stuff, medicated and the anger, and that's where we had an aha moment. She realized like, oh my goodness, this anger that I've held on for 10 years in my body is from then because I wasn't, I wasn't listened to.
Diana Rice: Right. Heartbreaking. Yeah. So I always start my, um, if you're going to be one of my clients, right? 'cause I hate calling them patients. I remember when the psychiatrist would be like, oh, the patient, and I'm like, they're human, you know? Mm-hmm. You know? But I get it. I get it. We have to do what we have to do in our field.
Diana Rice: I start with an adverse childhood experience test like a assessment. So to meet with me first, we do a free 15 minute consultation to see if, if I'm their cup of tea. Because honestly, people come and they meet me and they're just like, yeah, no, I don't, I don't want you as my therapist. I'm like, that's fine.
Diana Rice: I hope you find someone. That works for you. And then after that, it's an advert Ace ACE score assessment. I do a personality assessment, a Myers-Briggs. I do. I do a whole bunch of stuff. I mean, if they come in hardcore crisis like psychosis or something like that, then we. Come up with a plan with whoever brought them, if they're a teenager or if they're an adult and they have a significant other.
Diana Rice: So it is coming up with a holistic treatment plan. I do get them to go do blood work to see if they're missing nutrients because or if they're hydrated or not, or what are they eating, what are they watching? How are they using their five senses? So, Just have an understanding too, of the background.
Diana Rice: 'cause if you're coming from parents who believe therapy is stupid, which many, it's like what? You need to toughen up. Like come on, I, you have no idea. I come from hardcore trauma and you're sitting here being a little, you know, weakling and, no, no, this world's going to eat you up alive and you're gonna have to toughen up.
Diana Rice: And to me, That's yesterday with those students. The same thing. I asked a question, I'm like, how many of you have ever heard if you're going to cry, I am gonna give you something to cry about. And I would say probably, uh, 85% of the students raised their hand and they were just, and they all looked around and they were like, whoa.
Diana Rice: And I'm like, yeah. I go, wouldn't it have been been better if you felt a certain feeling and someone just said, Hey, what's going on? Instead of comparing traumas. 'cause that's intergenerational trauma, that's, you know, interracial trauma. I mean, there's so many different kinds of traumas and that's us as therapists to really understand it.
Diana Rice: And let's not forget how we market ourselves. Because if I'm on your website and I only see white people in your pictures or whatever, I'm not gonna feel comfortable going to you. Mm-hmm. Mirroring thing. I, it's, it's, you know, having that understanding like, oh, I wanna be inclusive, I wanna have understanding, get the education, market yourself by understanding like, yes, find the picture or whatever it is that you need of the Asian person or the Latinx person, or the African-American person, or the Caribbean person.
Diana Rice: Because in each group there are subgroups too. Yeah.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. And speak to those individuals as best you can with the pain they're going through.
Diana Rice: Yeah. And if you don't know, ask. Yeah. Find a mentor that's a bipo therapist, psychologist that understands this. Find somebody. I don't care if you've been. In this field for 40, 50 years.
Diana Rice: If you're really, really wanting to help the Bipo community, find someone that's willing to have a one once a month meeting with you so you can just, you know, ask questions Whitney, like you're doing now. Yeah,
Whitney Owens: yeah. Right. And even within my practice, we, we do that. We have these conversations, you know, and it's, it's so lovely.
Whitney Owens: Yeah.
Diana Rice: Yeah. That's wonderful. I love to hear that. And, um, I also challenge everyone that's listening. If you have a private practice and you are making some bank and you are doing very, very well, if you are not having one pro bono or at least one sliding scale for community mental health to help with the burden that's out there and the lack of quality therapy that's out there, I challenge you to start kind of like Whitney's challenged me to, to raise my prices, and I did.
Diana Rice: I still, she knows that my heart is, I still want to help my community that I come from. And so I do. I have my, um, Few open path, because open path is a area where you can help, um, others that don't have the resources. So if you're really wanting to be inclusive, then grab one or two clients. Sacrifice yourself a little to help those that don't have as much as your other clients do.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's important. Yeah. This has been enjoyable. And informative of course. And I'm just really glad to bring, um, more voices to the podcast. I appreciate you taking the time to talk through these issues with me and to bring more education and honestly, just more love
Diana Rice: into the world. We need it.
Diana Rice: We need more love understanding. We need the fruit of the spirits more than ever.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, Diana, if somebody's listening and they're like, wow, I wanna get in touch with her, this is awesome. What would you tell them to do?
Diana Rice: You could go to my website through the valley therapy.com, or you could go to my Instagram.
Diana Rice: I am not a big social media person. You'll see how, how my posts are. But I, I post when I can and whatever comes to my head when I have the time. Um, and that, that's at through the Valley therapy. You could find me at Facebook the same through the Valley therapy and or, or my email, Diana at through the valley therapy.com.
Whitney Owens: Wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to be with me today and looking forward to, uh, getting to know you more in the future. Oh, for
Diana Rice: sure. Whitney. I'm glad I found you, or actually God brought me to you.
Whitney Owens: That's how it works, girl. All right. You
Diana Rice: take care. All right. Bye.
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