WP 39 | Top Leadership Skills You May Not Expect with Michael Deitrich
Introduction
Welcome back to the Wise Practice Podcast! In this episode, we have the pleasure of hosting Michael Dietrich-Chastain, an expert on peak performance in the workplace. Michael is the CEO of Arc Integrated, a leadership development and organizational consulting firm based in Asheville, North Carolina. He's worked with various CEOs and leaders to transform company cultures, and his writing has been featured in reputable publications like Time, Money, Entrepreneur, and The Washington Post. His mission is to create and maintain purpose-driven organizations that elevate the consciousness of all involved.
Tailored Leadership Qualities
Instead of offering a one-size-fits-all list of top leadership qualities, Michael emphasizes the importance of considering individual leaders' unique developmental areas. It is difficult to identify the absolute top 5 leadership qualities. Every given leader is going to have an area of emphasis that will be developed that depends on their needs and business. He believes that the most crucial qualities depend on the leader, their business context, and the dynamics at play. Leadership development should be personalized and focused on enhancing qualities specific to each leader's needs. The recipe for leadership is always dependent on the context the leader is in.
Leader as a Coach
As leaders progress in their careers and manage more extensive teams, the ability to coach becomes vital. Coaching junior leaders and team members fosters growth and development within the organization. It not only benefits those being coached but also provides the opportunity for leaders to master the skills they are teaching. Whitney and Michael highlight that delegation, communication, and conflict resolution are aspects that can significantly improve through coaching. The larger the team the greater the skill of coaching is needed.
Releasing Control
Whitney shares a real-life example of a practice owner who struggled to delegate calls, fearing a loss of control and reduced conversion rates. Michael emphasizes that the need for control often arises as a significant concern for some leaders. Releasing control is essential for effective delegation, accountability, communication, and stress management. Leaders must learn to trust their team members' capabilities to foster growth and efficiency.
Growing Skillsets
Business growth often brings forth the need for new skill sets, as exemplified by a practice owner needing to teach her team members sales techniques for handling client calls. Recognizing and addressing these emerging skillset requirements is vital for sustaining and improving business performance.
Common Leadership Development Qualities
Do you ever wonder what makes a great leader? Well, according to Michael, there are some common trends among leaders he's worked with. One key area he highlights is self-care. He says, "Like self-care, doing things for you and not for everybody else. A lot of people run their business for others and neglect themselves."
It's crucial for leaders to prioritize their own well-being. Michael shares examples of practice owners overpaying employees and feeling burdened by financial stress. Leaders need to take care of themselves to effectively lead others.
Empowering Leaders
Michael emphasizes the importance of empowering leaders to define the values of their businesses. He believes that there's a lot of untapped potential in creating unique and specific values for businesses. Christian leaders, too, can benefit from crafting values that align with their belief systems.
The Role of Facilitation
Michael highlights a lesser-known leadership skill: facilitation. He explains that the best leaders are also great facilitators. Being skilled at facilitating discussions, idea generation, and meetings can harness the wisdom of a diverse group. This skill becomes even more critical in our rapidly changing world, where collective decision-making is essential.
Challenges in Leadership
Leadership come with its challenges, especially as businesses grow. Whitney shares a common issue among leaders—reluctance to be direct with employees to avoid hurting their feelings. Michael agrees and says, "As you grow, this becomes a real problem."
The Friendship Dilemma
Whitney and Michael discuss another challenge: hiring friends. While it might work in smaller companies, larger organizations face difficulties when friendships interfere with business decisions. Michael advises, "Don't hire that person unless you're ready for the friendship to be over."
Embracing Diversity
Whitney emphasizes the importance of diversity in businesses. Michael adds that involving everyone in co-creating business values can lead to better problem-solving and increased employee engagement.
The Role of Faith-Based Leadership
As a podcast for faith-based practice owners, Whitney asks about the significance of Christian leadership. Michael highlights the idea of empowering leaders with the authority to create values aligned with their beliefs. He encourages leaders to think creatively and consider unique values for their businesses. Michael also challenges the idea that Christian leadership must adhere to specific jargon. He advocates for the freedom to create values in a way that resonates with individual leaders, regardless of traditional norms.
Involving Others in the Conversation
Michael suggests involving everyone in conversations about values. This co-creation process not only solves problems more effectively but also fosters employee engagement and a sense of ownership.
Tips for Developing as a Leader
Self-Assessment: Identify the specific areas where you need to develop as a leader. Reflect on your strengths and weaknesses.
Coaching Support: Consider seeking leadership coaching to receive personalized guidance and feedback on your developmental areas.
Delegation: Learn to delegate tasks effectively to team members. Trust their abilities and provide clear instructions.
Communication Improvement: Focus on improving your communication style by being authentic, compassionate, and encouraging while providing clarity.
Continuous Learning: Embrace a growth mindset and continuously seek ways to enhance your leadership skills.
Prioritize Self-Care: As a leader, take care of yourself first, so you can better care for others.
Empowerment through Values: Define unique values that align with your beliefs and empower your team to be part of the process.
Develop Facilitation Skills: Hone your facilitation skills to tap into the wisdom of diverse groups and make better decisions.
Embrace Diversity: Value diversity in your business and consider hiring individuals from diverse backgrounds to enrich your team.
Engage in Co-Creation: Involve everyone in conversations about business values and let the collective wisdom guide your decisions.
Links and Resources
Please visit and support our Sponsor- Therapy Flow
Michael’s Book - The Changes Book
Michael on Instagram
Michale on Linkedin
Michael on Facebook
Michale on Twitter
Podcast Production and Show Notes by James Marland at Course Creation Studio
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WP 39 | Top Leadership Skills You May Not Expect with Michael Deitrich
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Whitney Owens: Therapy Flow helps you create the marketing needed to confidently hire and fill your clinician schedules in their flagship Done for You program. Together you will build all the marketing channels and systems needed to scale your practice to seven figures and beyond. Get help launching and optimizing your Facebook and Google Ads.
Whitney Owens: Implement a website and social media strategy that doesn't suck the life outta you and create. A consistent, reliable flow of new clients coming into your practice Therapy Flow's Flagship program equips you to build a sustainable practice that brings in your ideal clients. Check out my therapy flow.com for full program details.
Welcome to the Wise Practice Podcast, your host, Whitney Owens here. Before we jump into the episode, I like to share things going on in my life, things that I'm learning and growing my practice as I know that you also are growing and learning about yourself and who you are as a business owner, and I hope that.
What God's doing in my life will be some of encouragement and strength to you in your own journey. So if you're new to the show, to tell you a little bit about it, it's a podcast about building your business, but we also put a twist of faith in there. So we talk about the ways that God is living and active and working within our business and working within us.
And so just a few weeks ago as I was sitting in a service, actually my husband was preaching. Um, so believe it or not, he can still preach and I can learn something. So he's up there preaching and he talked about the importance of being in the here and now. So we talk about that as therapists all the time, but we don't talk it a lot in our, about our faith necessarily.
And he said, you know, there are people who are living in the past or thinking about the past, and there are people that are living in the future and thinking about the future. Yet, how often do we sit in this place of today? You know, he, he referenced the verse that this is the day that the Lord has made, and I often find myself actually being someone who lives in the future.
I'm thinking about things that are gonna come. Honestly, I'm usually worried about him. I'm sure that maybe you are like me or you're the opposite, where you're kind of living in the past and wanting that to come back or regretting it or whatever the case may be. But God is here in this moment in your life.
Stand in mind. He's here in this moment of my business decisions and what he wants me to do, and he cares. And I don't have to be thinking about what's next all the time. Um, I can live now. And so I hope that that brings you some strength and encouragement and where you are in your life today. It definitely did for me, um, that I slow down and pay attention to where he actually is moving in my life.
Um, another actually, he's gonna be preaching a sermon this Sunday. Of course, by the time this podcast comes, it'll already happen, but about Jacob's Latter and how Jacob was in this place and God was there, but he didn't even see it and he didn't even know it. And so when we're living in these other places, we miss what God is doing right in front of us.
And so I guess my challenge to you today is to be in that place of looking for God in your life. Looking for God in your business decisions he wants to make. I'm actually in the process of running a mastermind group right now of people who are hiring their first therapists, and we've had a lot of discussions about making those decisions and I keep reminding them that like God is with you in this process.
And so step into that, make those decisions for that. Don't run away from it. Um, so God is with you too in your decisions that you're making in your business and his presence is with you even at this very moment. And so I'm glad to be a part of your life and a part of your practice journey. So I do wanna get into the episode though.
This is episode number 39 and I interviewed Michael Dietrich Chastain, which I'm just gonna be honest, I love saying his name. He is such a great quality guy. I have really enjoyed getting to know him over the past, a little over a year now. I initially met him in Nashville, Tennessee when I was at the, not Your Typical Psychotherapist conference.
So, What to Ernesto and all the great events he runs. And I would encourage you go to events, the Wise Practice Summit, um, because it's in these events that we make some amazing connections. And so while I was there, Michael had a little, like a table and he offered for people to sign up for consulting for like a free 30 minute consult.
And so I did that. I had a situation going on in my practice with my, um, lead clinician. So I sat down with him, I talked through it, and gosh, I mean, he had such great advice and he's so great at leadership skills and immediately had things to help me, and I was like, whoa, like this. This is what I need.
Because to tell you the truth, as you get into high level, Places with growing your group practice, you really need more of a leadership capability, and I think I had not really invested in myself in my leadership skills and characteristics. So by the time this the conference was over, I had signed up for a six month consulting package with Michael and it was great.
I learned so much about myself. He does a lot of. Kind of personality stuff within the very beginnings of your package. I also learned a lot about myself and my interactions with my team members, how to better communicate the things I wanna grow on. I made lots of great changes in my practice and leadership positions and it.
It was invaluable. So I'm telling you that because I want you to enjoy the interview. Of course. And you'll see in the interview, um, Michael does, Michael has this gift to get you to talk, right. And to help you see things. So he does that a little bit with me in the interview, but I just always appreciate the conversations I have.
He always has great advice and tips, but also does a great job just challenging us to find what we want and what we wanna do in our business. So, Anyway, you will enjoy this interview and if you do, reach out to him, which I encourage you to, especially if you're a larger group practice and wanting to, or a smaller group practice and wanting to work on your leadership skills.
Let him know that you know me, because I like helping people connect. It's fun. So anyway, I am gonna jump in the episode because I know that you wanna hear from Michael. And so this is episode number 39, top leadership skills that you may not Expect.
Whitney Owens: Hello friends and welcome back to the Wise Practice Podcast. I have my dear friend Michael Dietrich Chastain here with me today, and I'm excited to. Introduce you to him, but also the topics we're gonna be talking about. And then just personally, Michael has been a coach for me and my growth of my business, and so I'm looking forward to learning more again today from him.
Whitney Owens: To tell you a little bit about Michael, he's an expert on peak performance in the workplace and is passionate about helping leaders and teams create company cultures of engagement, sustainability, and purpose. He's the founder and c e O of Arc integrated, a leadership development and organizational consulting firm based outta Asheville, North Carolina.
Whitney Owens: Michael's widely regarded in various CEOs and leaders he's worked with as the go-to resource for helping to transform the company cultures in which he works. His writing has been featured in Time, money Entrepreneur, and The Washington Post, and his first book Changes released in 2019 became an instant bestseller in multiple categories.
Whitney Owens: His mission is to help create and maintain purpose-driven organizations that elevate the consciousness of all involved. Thanks for coming on the show, Whitney. It's
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: great to be here with you. It's good to see you.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. So actually I haven't asked you this, so I will now, are you thinking about any more books?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: I am, I am, I am. I've actually got two in mind and I'm not sure which one to start with. They're very different from each other, and so I'm not sure, uh, the sequence yet, but yeah, I've got, got a couple in mind. Cool.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, of course I love your first book and the change cards and I love using them. Um, you know, really with groups that I'm interacting with, sometimes with friends, you know, we pull 'em out.
Whitney Owens: Um, so anyway, the, the Changes book is great, but I want, I think today we're gonna talk a little bit more about leadership and leadership qualities. Um, cuz Michael works with, I mean, tons of organizations, but also has a little bit of a specialty, would you say, with private practice owners, group practice owners.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. At this point we've worked with quite a few, um, group practice owners and group practice, uh, teams, leadership teams, and yeah, it's been great.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. So even for myself, um, I, gosh, I'm trying to remember exactly, it was around May, 2022 that we started working together for about six months and really worked on, um, leadership qualities for myself.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Cuz I think so often as we grow our group practice, and you probably would say this for lots of business owners, you get going and you just. Make things happen and you forget to develop yourself as
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: a leader. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, and qualities and necessity of those qualities change as the business grows and as more employees come on and priorities change and so, so yeah.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: It's kind of a, kind of an evolving, evolving
Whitney Owens: thing. Yeah, definitely. And I guess I had gotten to a point where I realized I wasn't leading as well as I could have and worked on those skills and processes and systems. So I'm excited today to kind of talk through what are some qualities that we wanna see in leaders, and I guess those qualities would go to different parts of our business or different goals maybe that we have, so, mm-hmm.
Whitney Owens: You ready to jump into
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: that? Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, what would you say maybe some of the qualities that we first wanna be ta taking attention to?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. So I'm, I'm actually gonna, if I can, I'm gonna flip this question and it'll lead us into, it'll lead us into a conversation. I think it'll be helpful.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And as a, as a kind of a long way to answer your question, what are the best qualities? And so, so let me ask you, Whitney, like what are important qualities that you have worked on are working on related to your leadership? Mm.
Whitney Owens: You're always so good at this. Okay. Um, well, one thing that we had worked on that was huge for me mm-hmm.
Whitney Owens: Was being direct. Yeah. And really, um, addressing people, I think that I thought, oh, if I'm nice to everybody, the culture will be great, but I, or if I don't put too many rules down, no one will hate me. Right. But I was actually causing the opposite. I was causing confusion. So, You know, people didn't have direction, people that, it was amazing.
Whitney Owens: Like, right. One good example is we, we had talked through the P t O policy, right? And you were like, well, why don't you ask your team what the p t O policy is? I was like, okay. And I did that and none of them knew what it was. Oh. Told they couldn't have time off. Um, so, so yeah, I would say, um, a big one is just being able to really identify the rules mm-hmm.
Whitney Owens: And structure. Mm-hmm. And I was
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: running away from that. Yeah. Yeah. Great. So great, great examples, right? Like rules, structure, clarity, processes, those are super common. What I would say really important leadership qualities, just like you mentioned. So let me ask you second question, again, I'm getting to your answer here in a minute, but when you think of other leaders that you know in your life, and it could be friends or colleagues or whomever, um, can you think of an example of.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Different leadership qualities that were also very important, but maybe very different from what you just mentioned when you think about a different leader that you know.
Whitney Owens: Hmm. Can you ask me that
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: question again? Yeah, yeah. So when you think about another leader that you know in your life, could it be from a private practice or another business?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm. And you think about maybe what their developmental areas are. So, like you said, you're, you talked about structure, you talked about processes, you talked about clarity. That's not always the case, right? For all leaders. So my curiosity is, can you think of an example of different qualities that might be important for another leader that you Yes.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Authenticity.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Okay. Authenticity. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Whitney Owens: Um, good communicators.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah.
Whitney Owens: Excellent, excellent. Yeah, like making time for your team instead of just being so in the weeds of what you're doing.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent. Those are all wonderful examples, and they're very, they're very real, right? I'm, I'm guessing by the look on your face, you're kind of imagining someone or uh, maybe a couple people, right?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm. And so the reason I asked you this, Whitney, is a long answer to your question of great leadership qualities is because I think it's. I think it's actually really difficult to say, here are the top five qualities that we need to develop as leaders. And it's probably more appropriate to say, here's the top five for any individual leader that they need to work on.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Because, well, well, we know there are certain things that you know are, are all really important. And you mentioned some of them being authentic and making time for your team and having clarity around expectations and being vulnerable and being great communicator. These are all really good. However, every given leader is gonna have an area of emphasis that's most important for them to develop because it's.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: It's probably, if it's not being developed, it's probably detrimental to their business. Hmm. And so this, so this idea that there are, you know, the most important qualities, I would say is very dependent upon who's the leader, what's the condition of the business, what's the dynamic at play? And I've seen this again and again, that, you know, in some businesses, and it's, and just like you said, it's about processing and it's about structure.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And in other businesses, it's about resolving conflict is the big edge that's getting in the way, or in other, in other leaders, in other teams, it's about, gosh, we need better communication. In other organizations, it's about, gosh, our values aren't really clear at all. Or we say our values are this, but actually our actions are totally different.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And so our lived values are something different than what we're saying. So, so as, as you're probably seeing like the, the recipe. It's always different depending on, you know, the, the context.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. You can see me kinda laughing here cause I totally agree. And yeah. And don't we all just wanna be like, okay, what are the five tips I'm gonna get and go Always, you
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: know?
Whitney Owens: Totally. I think that's also the way that we run away from our own development.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Ooh, I like that. I like that. Right.
Whitney Owens: Like, yeah. And, and as we grow as leaders, life is, Harder because yeah, we have more responsibility. There's more of our insecurities that come out, and I think that just speaks more to the importance of coaching and even individual coaching.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Right. Because it is such an individualized thing to grow as a leader, and you're really speaking well
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: to that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I agree. I mean, ob obviously that's a lot of the work that we do is leadership coaching and, and I've perceived a ton of coaching at my, myself over the years, and so I see the value as a client and I see the value as a coach, you know, giving, giving leaders, you know, feedback and a mirror and, uh, brainstorming opportunity and support on developing that edge, whatever that might be for them.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
Whitney Owens: I love what you just said about Mirror, um, because that was another quality I was thinking about earlier. Mm, yeah. Yeah. You know, leaders lead well that are mirrors to their people, so it's not us going, Hey, you need to fix this, that, and the other. But like saying back to them what's going on, a lot of times helping them develop to see what those things
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: are.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that. One of the, one of the, it makes me think of one of the commonalities that, uh, that we see across businesses is the, the, uh, idea that the, what is important? Meaning like, as an example, the, the structures, the policies, the procedures, but equally as important is the how, which is kind of what you're speaking to.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: The how, meaning, how are we delivering information? Which is really about communication, but um, I think this is a often un. Like under, under-emphasized opportunity. This how we deliver, how we communicate. You know, are we, are we curious? Are we compassionate? Are we both challenging and holding people accountable, wellbeing, encouraging and supportive at the same time.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: That really important intersection. And I think that, uh, yeah, that's, that skillset is really important. Hard to develop. And, and it's, it's one that we can always get better at.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. I, I love that deeper level of thinking. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Right. And I think as leaders, we are so consumed and busy, it's hard for us to take that next step of thinking that deeper level.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Cause we don't make the space for it. And that's so important. And I think that even speaks to that importance of delegation in our business. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because leaders need to make that space, or your business isn't gonna grow.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Thousand percent. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. No, and I would say that's another, you know, one of these common ingredients that we see for some, for some leaders, delegation is they've got it down pat, you know, they're really, really good at it.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And for others, that's the biggest thing that's getting in their way is their, the release of control. You know, which is, which is part, you know, that's, that's one aspect of, of delegation. Another aspect is time management. Another aspect is, you know, understanding like clarity of task and, and role and, and all.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: So there's a lot of ingredients to, to delegation, but that, that release of control is a common one.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, you said this earlier and it really kind of resonated with me that different leadership qualities are at different times. Mm-hmm. You know, and even as I think about my own business, who I was when I had three employees, it's very different than who I was at eight and 10 employees.
Whitney Owens: Very different than who I am now. Yeah, yeah. You know, I don't know if you have anything else to kind of speak to with that, but, um, it's kinda
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: changing thing. Yeah, yeah. I do. I, yeah, I can say a few things about that. So we. So I've worked over the years with, with leaders that have just a few employees and then leaders that, you know, are responsible for entire teams.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: So maybe it's like a few dozen employees and then leaders that are responsible for whole departments. So maybe it's hundreds or thousands of employees. And I think as you move up that scale of of Valium, one of the things that becomes really, really paramount is the ability to coach. Leaders that are, that are, you know, in an org chart, like be below you, so to speak, or those that report to you.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Being able to coach them on all the skills that we just talked about and, and others, of course, like all the really important leadership skills that'll drive the performance of the folks that are, you know, being led by folks that we're leading. And so this idea of leader as coach becomes more and more crucial the more people were responsible for.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And that's, that's been, that's been my experience over the years.
Whitney Owens: Oh, I love that. I love that. And that's challenging me right now. And you know, I have two clinical supervisors at the practice and it's easy for me to wanna just give all the answers or tell the team to call me anytime. But I have to constantly, no, no, no.
Whitney Owens: Like let 'em call them, let things happen. I can coach 'em through it and that's how we're gonna grow and that's how we're gonna automate. Yeah.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and the, you know, there's a lot of benefits to this too. Obviously the benefits to the folks that are being coached, we'll call 'em the junior leaders of a business of, of an organization, they get the benefit of that.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Those that they're leading get, hopefully get the benefit. But there's, there's another benefit that I think is often missed, which is, kind of goes back to this old saying that I'm sure you've heard and listeners have heard, which is, if you wanna really learn something, teach it. And so this, this idea applies here in leadership, just like it would in a, in a sport or a skill, right?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: So if you want to get really good at delegation, get good at it yourself, and then figure out how do I actually break this down and teach it and support someone else and building that same skillset. Same goes for authenticity or clarity of role or communication or conflict resolution. If we wanna get, you know, continuously better at something, we gotta figure out how to teach it more effectively.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Boy, we're always growing as leaders, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think something you might have mentioned a minute ago, or maybe I just heard it, I don't know. I hear things, um, about control. Yeah, yeah. Releasing control. People want too much control. Yeah. You have anything to say for that?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, I think that's a core. You know, element of delegation, you know, we were talking about that in, in connection to delegation. And I mean, it can that back to this idea that, you know, all leaders developmental edges are different just because, you know, we're all human and our edges are different as as human beings.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And so I think for, for some of us, The need for control is much more intense than, you know, than others. And so for the leaders where that's a big concern, control is a big concern. That's gonna show up in a lot of places. Delegation being one of those places. But it'll, it'll also show up in the context of holding people accountable.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: It'll show up in how they communicate, it'll show up in how they manage stress. It'll show up in, you know, conflict all, all, all, all over the place.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gosh. So yesterday, I can't believe I'm about to tell you say this. I, I was talking to a practice owner. She has 15 therapists. Okay. And she's still taking calls,
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: taking Oh, like in, like calls from potential new clients.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Whitney Owens: I about fell outta my chair. I immediately sent her a VA company.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: There you go. Nice.
Whitney Owens: Good for you. But it was, it was, um, it was because she had had a assistant and the assistant didn't do well, and then the calls were like, converting at 30%. Yeah. And she was like, oh no. And so then she started taking calls and they were converting at 80 to 90% and she was like, oh, wow.
Whitney Owens: I can't give this up. I gotta keep this up. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's just such a good example to what we're talking about is like, Being a leader and delegating, but also teaching someone how to do it so that it's done well. Mm-hmm. And then providing that accountability. It's all the things we're talking about.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Right? Yeah. You know, and I, I like that example too. Cause I think oftentimes what emerges as, as businesses grow is new skill sets become important. So in this example, what I would say the skillset we're talking about is, is sales. So teaching people how to close a client, so to speak, on the phone, that's an entirely different skillset than, you know, than clinicians would typically get trained in, is what are, what are, what are kind of some basic, uh, ideas around how to, how to sell.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: That's, that's, that's an, that's an area that emerges that maybe, maybe a leader wouldn't expect to have to train somebody on.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Oh gosh. And that just goes all back to fit and interviewing and all those good things.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Very connected. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm curious, can I ask you a question, Whitney? I love questions coming, coming to mind here.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: So you work with practice owners as well, and I'm curious in your history of, of working with leaders, what are common trends that you see? What are areas that you see that are maybe common leadership development qualities that need to be, need, need to be developed further? So,
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Anything come to mind?
Whitney Owens: I think, I mean, this is so said all the time, but it's so true. Like self-care. Mm-hmm. And doing things for you and not for everybody else. Nice. Because I think a lot of people run their business for the employees. Or for the contractors and they're not doing it for what they need themselves. So money is a really easy example.
Whitney Owens: I think practice owners are overpaying all the time. I mean, we see it because I hear the stories they're taking out loans to to meet payroll. You know, because they're paying too much. Or the owner is telling me I don't make any more than I did as a solo practice owner. And I'm like, this is crazy. Like, why even have your group practice just go back to have a solo practice?
Whitney Owens: So, right. That's just a small example. Or they're like, um, they wanna seek a bunch of clients, so the business brings in a lot of money. Well, if you're doing that, you're not running your business. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. But they feel like, well, I don't wanna make the therapist do it, or I don't wanna change their pay.
Whitney Owens: Well, then your business isn't gonna run well. Like you've gotta take care of you Yeah. As an owner and love your work. Yeah. And do things that you enjoy and not just doing it for everybody else.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. I love that. Love that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Common, common area of emphasis with leaders. Yeah.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. And I think what, you know, the story I shared is super common.
Whitney Owens: Just not wanting to be direct with employees, not wanting to hurt people's feelings. Yeah. Yeah. And then as you grow, that becomes a real problem. Um, you know, and I also see, and I don't know if you see this a lot with other companies that aren't private practice, but I see a lot of people hire their friends.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Oh, interesting. Yeah, I would say that, uh, I would say as a, in general, in my experience as a company gets bigger and bigger, that's less, less common, although I'm hesitating a little bit only in that, you know, I think at all scales of business networking comes into play and so, you know, is it. I don't know if I would say it's people hiring their friends, but oftentimes I do see people get positions based on who they know, whether that's a friend or a colleague or a special introduction or what, you know, whatever it is.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: I think that that definitely happens at all scales in my observation. But, um, but yeah, bringing in close friends, maybe, maybe less so as businesses get bigger in my experience.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, but it makes it hard for the leader to implement things they need to implement because they don't wanna mess up a friendship.
Whitney Owens: So I always advise people, don't hire that person unless you're ready for the friendship to be over. If you're okay with it ending, if you're okay with it ending, hire them.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's interesting, you know, I think that to bring in a friend, uh, you know, it's, it's an interesting test for a, for a business cuz I think for it, for it to work, obviously there's conversations that probably should happen between the two people, but it also is a good test for the structures of the business, right?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Because things like, like the culture really defined, or the values clear, are the positions very clearly articulated. Are the qualities of the people that are gonna fill these positions very clearly articulated, because what, and the reason I say all those things is because when they're not clear, any of those things, when they're not clear, what it often leads to is conflict or resentment or miscommunication or poor performance or fill in the blank.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And so obviously if, if you have those risks, you introduce a friendship there, um, maybe, you know, there's, there's more at stake.
Whitney Owens: Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, this is still kind of in the same vein, but curious as this is a podcast for faith-based practice owners. Yeah. Um, if you have anything to kind of say to the importance of like, Christian leadership and is there anything different about Christian leadership than leadership in general or any kind of faith-based comments here?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. You know, I really. I really love the idea of empowering leaders. You know, that, that have the, that have the authority. So think leaders that are either a sweet C-suite of a company or, or owners or co-founders. When they have that kind of authority to create, you know, the kind of values that they want in the business, um, to be creative with it.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And so I say that in connection to Christian leaders as a, just, as an invitation to say like, the values of a business are, are really whatever you want them to be. And, and I, I think that's a real, that's a really like under utilized opportunity for a lot of businesses, small and large. Like there's a misconception I think generally in business that, well, our values should probably be things like collaboration and customer service and you know, and honesty, and it's like, well, yeah, yeah.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Those are all good things. And like maybe there's some opportunity to be more creative and more specific. With the values. And so I think related to Christian leaders, I would be curious what would be some of those, some of those values that they might introduce that could be more oriented to, um, you know, their, their belief systems.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. That I love how you Yeah. And I can see you. So I love how I, like, can see the jargon of leader. Like, it's like, oh, these leader topics, you know, like, yeah. Christians are the same way though. It's like we have to use Christian language and do it a certain way, you know? And um, true. Sure. Yeah. I love you kind of debunking that, that it can be whatever you want it to be.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah. There's freedom and there's a lot of freedom in that, and then, you know, the, then of course, the bigger question is once we figure out what those values might be, is how do we, how do we, how do we breathe life into them? How do we ensure that they're operationalized, so to speak. And, um, you know, I, I think another lost opportunity, particularly in small business, cuz it's, what I'm about to suggest is easier to do in small businesses is to involve everyone in that conversation, involve all the employees, maybe even other folks that are connected to that business and conversing about, well, what are the true values that we want to uphold?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: What are the values that we're actually already seeing? In our conversations, in our actions with clients, with, with vendors, with third party people, with with our community. You know, what's, what's at play here? And I think the more, the more people we can have in conversation around this co-creation, the richer things become, and it, this can be done at a larger scale.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: We've, we've worked with clients on this, but particularly at a small scale, if you have less than 25 employees, this is a, this is a relatively easy thing to facilitate. And, uh, so that would be just a vote of encouragement for any listeners.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, and I think that's where we also see a downfall, I think, for practice owners or leaders feeling like, well, I have to lead.
Whitney Owens: I have to have the decisions. I have to know what we're doing, and I have to communicate that. I'm amazed how often I'll say to a leader, Hey, like, you're struggling with that. Why don't you share that with your team? So it could be that, um, finances aren't where we need it to be, or it could be like, yeah, we lost this employee and it, I'm broken over it.
Whitney Owens: Like mm-hmm. People are like, no, I can't, I can't say these things. I'm like, no, this brings your team together.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And they wanna stay in it. Totally ab Absolutely, yeah. The more we can, again, like connect people and have conversations with them and have them participatory in a creation together, it has all sorts of influences.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Like not only are you able to solve problems more effectively, it's got more wisdom in the room, but it has this amazing impact on engagement. Like you're saying, they feel like they're involved and they matter, and their, their opinions, you know, are, are counted for which, which they should be. And so yeah, this whole, this whole, you know, misnomer of there's, you know, five liters sitting around the table and have to make all the decisions.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: I think that's an outdated model. And it really, I mean, it, it, I think it can work in times of like stability and when there's not a lot of change happening, but we don't exist in a world like that anymore. And you could say that at least in our lifetime. We won't exist in a world like that. Mm-hmm. Our world is gonna be continually, rapidly changing from day to day, week to week.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And you could also argue that that change is exponential. Meaning that the, the pace at which the change is moving today is gonna be slower than it will be moving in, you know, six months from now and five years from now. And so that it just builds the argument that the more voices we can bring in to help answer.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Complicated questions. Uh, the better cuz we need, we need all those voices, we need all that
Whitney Owens: wisdom. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. I've actually been talking to one of my other consulting clients over ev Voxer about the importance of diversity, you know, diversity your business. Um, and that goes back to values, at least for this specific person.
Whitney Owens: She, she's in the process of hiring. She was like, I have learned. That diversity is important to me and I want this in my business, and I'm like, let's add that to your job description and your values of your business. Wonderful. And yeah, it brings in more voices and more voices are only gonna improve.
Whitney Owens: Improve what's going on in your practice.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, this is making me think, I want to circle back to where we started. Um-huh. Asking like what are the most important key leadership skills. Mm-hmm. And I'd like to mention another one again, that for some leaders they have this down really well, and for others it, they don't at all.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm. Um, but I would say what I'm about to mention is, is one that is less commonly mentioned around the leadership development, uh, conversation. And it's the idea that the best leaders are also the best facilitators. This is a really, really important skillset and it gets into exactly what we're talking about.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Like really good leaders have to understand what are the, what are the best practices to facilitate a, a group, small or a large a conversation, an idea generation session, a meeting. Like, there's a whole lot that goes into being a good facilitator. And if we can get good at that, then we can really mind the information, mind the wisdom of the diverse group that we have.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And, um, I think that, you know, again, some leaders have that down as a skill and, and others it's not even something that is on their radar. But I would say that more time goes on, the more paramount that's gonna be because again, this, this concept of. Co-creation and wisdom sharing amongst the whole group is, I think, gonna become continually more important.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Does that resonate with you? Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate you bringing that up. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, um, so I wanted to talk a little bit more about kind of people getting connected to you, um, that are listening. Yeah. If you wanna, you know, learn more, can you share a little bit about how to get in touch with you?
Whitney Owens: And then I believe you have a free leadership quiz for the audience.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, yeah, I'll give, I'll give a couple interesting, uh, places to check us out. So, ARC integrated is our site, arc integrated.com, a r c integrated.com. And yeah, that free leadership quiz is if you, if you're curious to see how are you doing at leadership, what it'll do, it'll take you like two minutes.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Uh, you fill out a few questions and you'll get a customized report to saying, here's what you're doing. Well, here's some opportunities to work on, and. There's an opportunity to, to connect for a free consult if they're interested. And you can find that quiz at arc integrated.com/quiz. And, uh, yeah, it's fun.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: I think people will enjoy it. And I will give one other, uh, opportunity. So Whitney, I don't know if I've told you much about this, but we recently hosted a leadership development retreat in Costa Rica. In April of, of 2023 and it's, it's planned and ready and we've already got some, uh, spots booked for 2024.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: So there are, there are a few spaces left and so if people are curious about that, they can go to the conscious leaders quest.com for all the details. And, uh, yeah, really excited to do that retreat again next year. It was real special this year.
Whitney Owens: Wonderful. Yeah. And so, um, before we kind of close out, can you share a little bit if someone's listening right now and they're like, oh, I'd love some leadership coaching.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. And what, what would that look like working with you? Kind of, what do you offer? Sure.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, so they can sign up for a free consult. We'll do you know, 45 minutes of what my intent on those calls is really just to deliver value. So if someone is, you know, has something they're struggling with, I would say, set up a call and I'll give you as much as I can.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And that 45 minutes. And then if, you know, if you're curious to learn how we would work together, I can explain that. But in short, it's a six month coaching program. Comes with a. A bunch of bells and whistles, and I can explain that on the call. But, um, yeah, for the, for the most part, those calls Whitney, as you know, like I just try and give as much support, guidance, and resource as I can.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And typically, even if people decide we're not a fit or, or if I decide we're not a fit, which sometimes happens, um, they'll at least walk away from that call with, um, more understanding and resource than they started the call with. So
Whitney Owens: that's good. Yeah. Oh, I appreciate you saying that. And yeah. Um, yes, we don't work with everybody.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happens, yeah,
Whitney Owens: happens. I think people think that, I think people think we're like trying to sell 'em and I'm like, nah, I don't offer my packages to everybody. That's people that I think I can
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: actually help. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. It happens. It happens fairly regularly with me too.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Now, thankfully we've got, you know, I know we both do have a huge network of folks in our world that. Can be of service for other things. Yes. You know, it might be that, you know, it turns out after a call someone really needs support in finance or they need support in marketing, or they need support in, you know, some something else that isn't in our wheelhouse.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm always, I'm always asking that question as well, like, is this, is this exactly the right fit or would this person be better served somewhere else? And yeah. It's, it's the, it's the, it's the opportunity to have that conversation and see where it goes.
Whitney Owens: That's right, that's right.
Whitney Owens: So I just wanna encourage people, if you're interested in coaching or talking with Michael, please schedule cuz you're not losing anything by doing it. I'm, I'm always surprised how people don't schedule calls. I'm like, they're totally free and you're only gonna benefit as a leader by doing it. So.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Well, I'll, I'll give a link and, uh, you can put it in the show notes too, if people wanna schedule directly, that's fine.
Whitney Owens: Awesome. Well, anything else we missed out on? I mean, there's so many things, but there's so many. Anything else you wanna make sure to mention today?
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Gosh, I know we could, we could talk about leadership for a long time.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Let, let's see. I don't, I don't think so. Are there any other questions that are top of mind for you or anything you think we missed?
Whitney Owens: I think we covered it very well. I, uh, I look forward to hearing what the next books are.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want, you want me to tell you a, a little bit Sure. If you're ready to talk about it.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Uhhuh. Yeah. So, uh, just, just a small snippet. So one of 'em is about the idea of holding paradox as a leader. So the, the challenge of how do we recognize that two truths can exist the same time, and the other one is about, How to influence through asking better questions. So the, the idea is that for us as leaders to be truly influential, it necessitates that we get better and better at asking questions.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: And I, I think there's a direct relationship between, in influence and question asking. And so that book would unpack some of the research and story behind it. So those are the two ideas. They're both
Whitney Owens: really good and I actually think the second one really encompasses who you are.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Ah, I, I'm leaning, I'm leaning towards that one, so Yeah.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: But
Whitney Owens: I really liked the paradox one because that is, I mean, I see that all the time. I. Yeah, me
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: too. I see it all the time too. And I think it's, it's interesting cause I think that's ever present in small business, it's ever present in communities and we're certainly seeing that at the global scale Yeah.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Of this, this challenge around holding two truths at the same time. And so yeah, it's definitely, it's top of mind right now, but, uh, but yeah, I, I like the, in the influence and question asking, uh, topic as well.
Whitney Owens: Cool. Well, You just have to do both of them.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: I like it. I like it
Whitney Owens: so well, thanks for sharing and I appreciate you taking the time to be on the show, and I'm excited for this show to air.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, always great to see you, Whitney. Thanks so much for having me. All
Whitney Owens: right. Thank you.
