3 Mistakes Made When Hiring a VA with James Marland | WP40

Written By Whitney Owens

Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Wise Practice Podcast In this episode, we are delving into the world of virtual assistants and the common mistakes to avoid when hiring them. We have a special guest today, James Marland, who brings over 18 years of experience in the mental health industry and shares his valuable insights on hiring and managing virtual assistants.

Mistake Therapists Make #1: Hiring A Virtual Assistants Without Mental Health Experience

Our first mistake to avoid is hiring virtual assistants without mental health experience. James shares his own experience of making this error in his first hire. “Working with people who are angry, sad, or dealing with various mental health conditions requires a unique mix of skills. Hiring someone with mental health experience is key to their success in your office." James learned this lesson when he hired someone without mental health background for a scheduling role, assuming he could train her, but she struggled to handle client-facing duties. He emphasizes the importance of hiring individuals with mental health experience, as they can better connect with clients and handle sensitive situations.  "You gotta hire somebody with some mental health experience... they have similar experience. There's just something about working... in a mental health office already or having some mental health experience..."

James emphasizes that candidates who have undergone therapy themselves don't necessarily possess the required experience. Hiring individuals with prior work in a mental health office or related fields ensures they can handle the challenges of the job.

Mistake Therapists Make #2: Hiring a Virtual Assistant that is not tech-savvy

The second mistake to avoid is hiring virtual assistants who lack tech-savviness. "Virtual assistants need to be tech-savvy as they work independently on computers, handling VoIP phone systems, Zoom, EHRs, and more. Their ability to troubleshoot tech issues efficiently is crucial." Working remotely requires proficiency in various digital tools and systems. James recommends conducting behavior interview questions to assess their tech skills. Virtual assistants who are not tech-savvy can drain your time and resources, causing unnecessary delays and mistakes. "An assistant who is not tech-savvy is gonna burn you out. They're gonna burn up your hours, they're gonna burn up your time, they're gonna ask you questions... that could have been solved in a minute or two."

Mistake Therapists Make #3: Hiring a Virtual Assistant based on a Gut Feeling

Hiring based on gut feeling rather than data and behavior is another common mistake. "During interviews, use behavior questions to gauge problem-solving abilities. Look for the specific behaviors your “rockstar” employees have. James suggests using behavior interview questions to gather reliable data about candidates. By identifying behaviors crucial for the role, you can ask candidates about their past experiences, enabling you to make more informed hiring decisions. "If you go off behaviors, it becomes very clear on who you can hire, who is gonna be your A players, your B players, and your C players. And you try to hire A and B players." 

To attract the right virtual assistant, James advises using behavior-based job descriptions. He recommends observing the behaviors of successful current employees or colleagues and incorporating them into the job description. This approach helps identify suitable candidates who possess the required skills and align with the company culture. James also recommends avoiding hiring friends or family members for key roles to prevent complications.

Avoid Hiring Friends and Family Members

A crucial tip is to avoid hiring friends and family members for key roles. While you might have a personal connection, it can blur the lines between work and friendship. James and Whitney share cautionary stories of how this can lead to hurt feelings and ineffective working relationships. "I would say just avoid hiring friends and maybe even family members if they don't have the experience."

Consider Hiring through Agencies

Consider hiring virtual assistants through agencies, as they can save you time and offer management support. While it might come at a higher cost, the benefits of having a backup when someone leaves or is unavailable can be invaluable. "It makes sense to hire somebody that will help you cover... What's that 10 or 15 extra dollars of management layer?... What's an hour of your time worth?"

Final Thoughts and Action Steps

Hiring the right virtual assistant is essential for maximizing your productivity and growing your mental health practice. Avoiding the mistakes discussed in this episode can save you time, resources, and stress. Remember to base your hiring decisions on data and behavior, ensure your VA has mental health experience and is tech-savvy, and consider using an agency for support.

Action Steps:

  • Create behavior interview questions to assess candidates' skills and behaviors accurately.

  • Look for virtual assistants with mental health experience to handle client-facing duties effectively.

  • Test candidates' tech-savviness by giving them a practical assignment involving digital tools.

  • Avoid hiring friends and family members for key roles to maintain professional boundaries.

  • Consider hiring through reputable agencies to save time and receive management support.

Show Sponsor

Links and Resources


Podcast Production and Show Notes by James Marland at Course Creation Studio

  • WP 40 | 3 Mistakes Made When Hiring a VA with James Marland, MBA

    ===

    Whitney Owens: Hello friends and welcome back to The Wise Practice Podcast. Today we're gonna be talking all about adding virtual assistants to your practice. So virtual assistant is someone who can work a variety of different kinds of hours for different types of services. So we'll talk about all the different kinds of things you should be looking for.

    Whitney Owens: How do you hire them? And that whole process, and I have an expert here today to talk about that. I'm also excited, um, because James Marland is a dear friend of mine and he produces this podcast. What, what? So I love that and has been a huge support to me over the years. So I'm excited to introduce you to him.

    Whitney Owens: And he has lots of great services to offer virtual assistant information and other things. So let me read his bio and then we'll jump into the episode here. But James is located in Lancaster, Pennsylvania with his wife of 25 years and son, With over 18 years of experience in mental health services, he's held positions ranging from caseworker at a day hospital to admission staff for inpatient care, as well as serving as the c o O of a virtual assistant company.

    Whitney Owens: James is the friendly host of the Scaling Therapy Podcast. Scaling Therapy Practice podcast, excuse me, A show that guides private practice owners towards significant growth. He also manages the course creation studio, supporting therapists in creating products, podcasts, services, and online content. And in his time, he volunteers in a 12 step recovery group and a lively board game night for the community.

    Whitney Owens: James, thanks for coming

    James Marland: on the show, Whitney. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

    Whitney Owens: Of course. And I, I always love having people 'cause I'm like, wow, I didn't know you, uh, volunteered for a 12 step recovery group. So that's really cool. Um,

    James Marland: yeah. Yeah, it's actually been, um, it's actually been in the last three years, I've been doing it for about three years now.

    James Marland: It's actually been pretty transformative. Uh, just walking along people as they go through their own journey or, and their own group growth. And it's go, it's done, gone through the church and I think there's a lot of, um, Hurt that people pick up going through the church and they, they feel like they have no place to go with their hurts, hangups, or habits.

    James Marland: Uh, maybe not addictions, but you know, those, you know, those types of deep things. Like a guy the other day, he was talking about how an, uh, anxious he felt with other people because of like the loss of his father early on. And he gave up and gave a testimony about that afterwards and how. Recognizing that he has a new life in Christ and like, uh, just, just he took on a new persona from when you saw him.

    James Marland: It's about a year program when you saw him from the beginning to the end, it is just, I. It's one of the best things I've ever done in my life. Just walking alongside people, not judging them and just helping them through their issues. Mm-hmm. So that it's, uh, the program came, started in Texas, it's called Regeneration or Region, and it is phenomenal and I think it's making a great impact in, well it's making an impact in my life, but it's also making an impact in the, the lives of people who've been hurting for years.

    James Marland: So, anyways, that's regeneration. It's one of the best things I've done. Love it.

    Whitney Owens: Oh, I just love that. And you know, our work is important to us and then our volunteer is also important. So I love that you're sharing that with us. Um, yeah, so I'm excited to jump into this content because I get, I mean, virtual assistance is one of the things I get the most questions about in working with people.

    Whitney Owens: So you have some great content to offer today. Um, so why don't you go ahead and get started. I know you have some, um, notes there. Sure. That I'm excited

    James Marland: to hear. Yeah, uh, absolutely. So, uh, working in virtual assistants for, uh, at least three years and then supporting being in the support staff role for, you know, 16, 18 years at a mental health facility.

    James Marland: Come up with the, you know, mistakes people would make. Uh, I did a lot of hiring, so we're gonna cover some mistakes people make with hiring. And, uh, mistake. Most of this, unfortunately, fortunately, is from experience. You know, I've made all these mistakes myself, uh, and then I promised myself I wouldn't make them again, and then I make similar mistakes.

    James Marland: So, uh, these are some of the things I've picked up along the way. I think, uh, my very first, so the first, the first mistake I had was I, I hired somebody without mental health experience. I felt like, oh, I could train them or I knew them. And this is for the scheduling role. Maybe not necessarily like your social media role or maybe some email content role is your webpage.

    James Marland: It's like people who have client facing duties and I hired somebody. Great person. Um, she, she worked in a church. She volunteered coordinating events, and I'm like, oh, that's really good experience with scheduling. You know, she, she handles multiple people. She deals with the community. And, uh, so I hired her.

    James Marland: It was my very first hire. And, uh, she, she lasted like a week. Oh, wow. Because, 'cause, uh, she realized, oh, and she had worked, you know, in a, in a pharmacy. So she had some medical, you know, uh, terms and things. But what happened was I paired her with a program, with a, with a, uh, a therapist who was in desperate need of help, and it buried her.

    James Marland: It just, mm-hmm. Uh, It, it was, it was too, too much to learn, too fast. And she, she was like, you know what, this isn't, this isn't the role for me. And over the years, the, as I have hired people without mental health experience, believing I could, you know, train them up or they could learn it, or it's, they have similar experience.

    James Marland: There's just something about working, either working in a mental health office already or having some mental health experience, not, uh, People often say, oh, I've, I have, I've been, I've been to therapy a lot, you know, or I've ta had my own therapy. It's, that's not quite the experience that we're talking about.

    James Marland: We're talking about, you know, talking with people who are angry at you, talking with people who are sad, talking with people who, um, have conditions or terms that mean something in the mental health world, but the. The layperson wouldn't, it doesn't register for them. Is that, is that connecting with you, Whitney?

    Whitney Owens: Oh, definitely. Yeah. And, and because terms can mean one thing out in the community and a different thing in our offices. Um, you know, and, and James, I, I was actually thinking as well, I see this in hiring therapists. That, um, I made the big mistake with one therapist who said, I want full-time. I said, all right, you're going full time.

    Whitney Owens: I gave her 15 clients her first week, and then the second week she had 21 clients. And she about panicked. I mean, almost lost her because it was too much for

    James Marland: her. Yeah. Too much, too fast. Yeah.

    Yeah.

    Whitney Owens: And I think in mental health we've gotta be super cognizant of that because it is a lot emotionally for people.

    James Marland: Well, yeah. We were, we were starting to talk about this in the pre-show, where the, the, the virtual assistant whose client facing has to have a unique mix. Of skills. Not only do they have to know how to like punch things into the computer and be task oriented and like focused and get things done that way and love checklists.

    James Marland: You know, one of the things I look for when I hire people is like, do you have checklists? Like, do you, are you looking for, like, how do you get things done during your day? Because the, the virtual assistant who has multiple, multiple clients or mul, you know, in a large office, Is gonna have mul, like lots of things thrown at them.

    James Marland: So they need to have a system in place, so they're gonna get overwhelmed, but they also have to have that, that empathy, you know, you know that caring, that ability to stop their tasks, listen to the person, get the information they need, and then keep moving on. Like it's not. It's just this mix of emotional intelligence, but also task.

    James Marland: You know, they get enjoyment out of completing the tasks that I think you often fall into one camp or the other. You know, you often fall into the checklist camp or the, oh, I'm gonna sit down and talk to you for 30 minute camp. But as a virtual assistant, you gotta be a mix of both. The ones that can do that are way more successful than the ones who can't.

    James Marland: So you gotta look for that.

    Whitney Owens: I'm so glad you said that because it is so important. I, I remember, um, when I started my group practice, I had two therapists working for me and me and I was taking calls for all of us. Mm-hmm. I was way past needing to hire somebody and I remember I'd get those calls, I'd have a client in the lobby waiting to see me, and I'm trying to take an intake call 'cause I've gotta fill up my new hires 'cause I need them to see clients.

    Whitney Owens: And I was so task oriented. I didn't wanna hear anything they had to say because I had to finish this up to meet with my client and. Boy, my person that answers the phones now, she's so compassionate and sweet and friendly and I'm like, good job. 'cause she's also task oriented. But you're right, it's, it is a very specialized skill.

    James Marland: So when, when I would hire somebody for just their personality, I, I, they, they, uh, they weren't productive. And then when I would hire somebody for tasks, I would get complaints. About how unfriendly they were and like, they, they, you know, they, they brushed me off or they didn't spend an extra minute to listen.

    James Marland: So, yeah, that, that's, that's the first mistake. I think. You gotta hire, hire somebody with some mental health experience, with success, doing it, uh, for, for them to be successful in, in your office. That's what I would look for first. It doesn't mean that this is an axiom, you know, where you'd never break this rule, but, It's one of my big rules because I've been burnt so often going the other way.

    James Marland: Sure, sure. What's your next one? So the second, next one? Yeah. The second tip is, uh, or the second mistake is, uh, hiring virtual assistants who are not tech savvy. Ooh. Uh, yeah. Um. So let's say they have the personality and, and they, they show that they can, you know, they're, they're tech task list oriented, but they struggle with the tech side.

    James Marland: And unfortunately, you know, virtual assistants generally mean you're working on your own computer or a computer in a remote place without staff around you. With a, with a VoIP or a V O I P telephone system with Zoom, with, uh, your E H R, that's all electronic with Google, whatever workspace I guess it's called now.

    James Marland: Um, with scanning things and faxing, you know, not faxing anymore, but scanning things and PDFs and electronic signatures. I'm sure you could list about five more, Whitney, of just the electric things that you do. If they don't, if they can't send you a P D F, you're in trouble. Ha. Yep. Like, if they can't figure out how to take, use their phone and scan something and send it back to you signed, or use a scanner or figure out a way to do it, just even in the application process.

    James Marland: I mean, that's, that's a red flag on that. That's just a red flag that you gotta pay attention to. Um, how many, how many things. How many systems do you think, Whitney, do you think you, you use that your VA would need to know just off the top of your head? Oh, probably like

    Whitney Owens: seven or eight.

    James Marland: Yeah. Uh, and do, do all those things work perfectly all the time?

    James Marland: Absolutely not, no. Like, there's just, there's just problems. There's things you gotta problem solve. And so, uh, an assistant. An assistant who is not tech savvy is gonna burn you out. Mm-hmm. They're gonna burn up your hours, they're gonna burn up your time, they're gonna ask you questions. Something that could have been solved in a minute or two is, or maybe five minutes of Googling, it's gonna sit on their desk for three days until they get your attention to help you solve it.

    James Marland: So, uh, somebody who isn't tech savvy. Once again, it's, it's not an axiom that you can't hire them, but you will need to identify your bandwidth. Like, how much can you, what, how much can you walk with them to get them up to speed, uh, technology. And often it takes, you know, Maybe three months. Like it takes a long time to get people comfortable with technology.

    James Marland: Do you have an hour a day for three months to solve technology problems? Um, one of the, one of the, now how do you, how would you solve that problem, Whitney? If, if, how, how do you, like what do you look for when somebody's interviewing for tech? Do you even, do you even, uh, put that on your list of things to.

    James Marland: Interview for?

    Whitney Owens: Well, I'm just gonna admit that I'm very grateful that I haven't had to really go through this process very much. Oh man. I'm so grateful. Um, But no, it is not on my list. And actually, we were talking pre-show about two different people I do consulting with yesterday. Both had worked with the company and both had people that they wasted their time and energy on because both of them didn't know the systems, they didn't know the technology.

    Whitney Owens: And so the amount of time the business owner was spending with them, Was wasted, you know? Yeah. And it was things like billing cards for clients that shouldn't have been billed. That's a bad mistake. Mm-hmm. Um, not knowing how to use the software for the voice, um, phone messaging and all that. Yeah. Um, but I do talk about technology usually because, I am not the best with it.

    Whitney Owens: I'm probably better than I realize, but I, I struggle. And so like, I just recently hired someone who's doing some marketing, um, for the consulting business and for Waters edge counseling. And yeah, I mean, I saw that she knew what she was doing, but I think the thing that's also important to acknowledge here is.

    Whitney Owens: When they run into a mistake, I'm looking for someone who will take action and figure it out how to do it. Like so when I'm like, Hey, I don't know how to do this. She's like, well, I don't either, but I'm gonna Google it and research it and figure it out. Yeah. And I've unfortunately seen some VAs that don't take that initiative, and I think we really need to be looking

    James Marland: for that.

    James Marland: Uh, a hundred percent. Uh, that, that, that question about the behavior, what would you do? I'm a big believer in behavior interview questions. I learned it from manager tools. It's a podcast that's been going on for 10 or 15 years, and if you, if you go to manager tools.com and look up. Interview questions or behavior interview questions.

    James Marland: They have, you know, probably 10 podcasts on how to do it. But, um, just how do you, how do you find out if they are a somebody that's a problem solver? A problem solver is a great behavior to have in your virtual assistant, so you have to ask that question. We often have, uh, you're often on your own, working on your own without tech support.

    James Marland: And things might not go as planned. When things don't go as planned, what are the actions you would take to, or that you have taken? 'cause we're we're asking them to tell us about behavior that they've done, like actual behavior. So tell us about a time when you had a behavior, a, a tech problem. Let, let's say the phone didn't work.

    James Marland: What, what, what did you do to solve it? And then you listen for their actions. I've had people in my interviews say something like, well, I called tech support and waited, you know, and that was not the right answer because their behavior was, they were not problem solvers. The behavior I was looking for was problem solving.

    James Marland: And they told me they are a, a resource strain, unfortunately. Uh, so yeah, finding that, finding that out. The other thing I would do, um, Is give them in your, in your interview process, give them something techie to do. Like have them scan something, like send them a form that they need to print out, scan, sign, and send back.

    James Marland: I mean, you probably do that in your sleep now, but if you can't do it, are they gonna figure it out? That's gonna tell you a lot about their skills, some sort of meaningless tech. Assignment that if they can do it, it helps. Now, other people have said, oh, when, when they sent the form back, they're like, I didn't know how to do it.

    James Marland: I'm sorry it's late. My nephew helped me with it. Well, guess what? That also might mean you're gonna be the nephew. You know, you're gonna be the person helping them all the time to figure out their, their tech issues. So you could have 'em send, uh, print something out, scan it, sign it back. You could have 'em.

    James Marland: Send you a Zoom video, like, send me a, a video, um, tell telling me why you're perfect for this job. That's technical, but it also gives you personality. It shows them that, that, that they can talk about. Often when I would interview people, they would say, well, I want a, why do you want, or why would you be good for this job?

    James Marland: It would be like, well, I wanna work from home. And I'm like, well, that's not. Necessarily a good re that doesn't help me understand why you would be a good fit for this job. Tells me why you want the job. So it gives them an opportunity to say like, well, I worked in mental health for five years. I'm a problem solver.

    James Marland: I'm compassionate to people. Like, it gives them a chance for they to explain all the reasons why they would be a good fit. So, I've, uh, I went through the, the program run like clockwork, and that that is what they did. They had people submit videos. They also had a really long job application. So, um, yeah, that, those are two tips to help with the tech, the tech, you know, help, helping to figure out if people are techy or not.

    Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, thank you for those tips. I. Sometimes forget that people don't know things that I know. And so I think having that process, you know, we just assume everyone knows how to use Zoom, but they don't. Oh, yeah. So having that process I think is important in that way. So I appreciate those tips. Um, and then you have a third mistake there.

    James Marland: Yeah. And this is probably, I would, I identified with this is, uh, just hiring on gut feeling rather than on actual data and behavior. Yeah. Um, I got, I got in trouble with this a lot and I'm, I'm just assuming compassionate therapists who are dedicated to helping people and they believe the best in people and they like, you know, believe that they can overcome, you know, oh, I can help the person through this.

    James Marland: It translates into the hiring process. So you, uh, also, one of the things I Oh, man, I fooled myself with is like, I know people, you know, people can't get things passed through me. And like if I, if people are lying, I can tell, like I did intake interviews for at least 10 or 15 years, well, maybe 13 of the 16 years.

    James Marland: That I was in the, in the, the mental health, I did the day hospital intakes, which were like hour long interviews. I did inpatient hour or two hour interviews. Um, I did outpatient interview. Like I, I, that was my main, one of my main roles. I just interviewed people all day long, listened to their problems, wrote it down, and if anybody should know about questions and listening for things, it should be me.

    James Marland: But when I went with my gut, Oh, this would be a good person. I ignored red flags, like I just totally missed things that should have been apparent to me that this person doesn't have the right behavior to. Uh, be successful in this job. So that's, that's one of the big mistakes is going with your, your gut instead of data.

    James Marland: And well, you're gonna probably ask, well, how do you get that data? Right? Like, how do you Yes, I was, and this is also from the manager tools. Uh, they have a book on interviewing, which I went through and, uh, they, they ask you to use behavior interview questions because, You can't predict. The big problem of hiring is you can't predict future behavior.

    James Marland: Right? You can't tell what somebody's gonna do in the future. So how do you make good hires? Well, you've heard this before, but the, the best reliable data we have is recent behavior in a similar situation. So what did they do in their last. Job. And how do you find that? You ask behavior interview questions, just like we went through with the, the problem solving.

    James Marland: You know, what if you had, what if one of the behaviors you were looking for is, is empathy? So you ask a question, like, we often get phone calls in our office where people are in emotional distress. So you set up, you set up the, uh, you set up the question, then you ask an open-ended question. What, um, What have you done in the past when somebody calls into stress, that's the open-ended question.

    James Marland: And then you, you list the behavior that you want to help them calm down and give you the information you need to do your job. So you're, it's like a three part thing. Um, set up the question, uh, like a soft lead in the open-ended question and then the behavior that you're looking for. Then with these structured questions, you're going to get great data for you to like, oh, they have this behavior that I'm looking for.

    James Marland: They have some empathy. They, uh, 'cause they're gonna be out, they're gonna tell you if they have a story about that, they will tell you If they don't have a story about the behavior that you're looking for, then. Then they're gonna be like, well, I would do this, or This is something that I've done, seen other people do in the past.

    James Marland: And you're gonna be able to say, almost definitively they have it or they don't. They have this behavior. Mm-hmm. Or they don't. And if you go off those lists and you, you're rigid in your application, like you ask the same questions to all the candidates, the same questions, you're gonna be able to compare candidates apples to apples.

    James Marland: Not, not. On your criteria, on your definitive criteria that you need not Oh, oh, I think they're, you know, I, I like that their answers, I like their answers. Is not necessarily a good reason to hire somebody. You wanna hire people with the right behavior.

    Whitney Owens: Yes, definitely. And you brought up just the point that I think this is where I struggle, is making the process the same for every hire.

    Whitney Owens: I'll wanna move somebody quickly 'cause I'm excited about 'em or Oh yeah.

    James Marland: Lazy. Or whatever the case may be. Or you need it. You need it. Like, oh, how, how many people are in desperate need? Oh yeah.

    Whitney Owens: Oh yeah. And I need to slow down and do the process the same for everyone.

    James Marland: Yeah. And, uh, the, uh, so where do you get these behaviors?

    James Marland: Is if you have an assistant right now that's doing a good job, just look, look at their outcomes. You know, look at what their, their outcomes are and how, what are their behaviors that they're doing it. If they have a high scheduling percentage, what are the behaviors that they're doing for scheduling? Is it, it might not be they answer the phone all the time, but it might be.

    James Marland: When they call, they're relentless. You know, they call three times, that's a behavior, and they, uh, they follow some sort of script or whatever. I don't know, like, what are those behaviors? So observe the behaviors of your current rock stars and start writing 'em down, and then you can, uh, use those behaviors for your job description.

    James Marland: Because then you like, it's a whole thread. You put it in your job description, you tell people what they want and then they, some of them will self-select in and like, oh, I got this, I got this, I got this. I'm perfect for this. And some will self-select out if they know the behavior. So you make it really clear in the job description.

    James Marland: And if you don't have a va, just ask your friends, you know, join a. Join a Facebook group, you know, or just, you know, maybe the wise practice community, you know, and like, that's right. Do you have a va? I'm sure your people would share, you know, do you have a va? What are their behaviors that knock it out of the park?

    James Marland: Then you pick the behaviors that you want, make behavior interview questions for 'em, put it in your job posting, and then you hire people based on that behavior. One of the key, key things I learned from the book, It forced me to say, you have to make a decision at the end of the interview. You know, on your, on your form.

    James Marland: Ba do a hire, no hire, yes or no based on, you know, they have these behaviors and just write it out. Maybe it's a sentence or two. Yes, I'm, they have like the three core behaviors. They're strong in two of them. They're weak, you know, a little weaker. They get weaker answers and one not so important behavior I think we could work with.

    James Marland: Or you know, the, the ones who have like the. They're not empathetic, they're not task oriented, and they don't have a great, you know, PR presentation. They're an obvious, no, they're obvious. Like it's when you go off behaviors, it, it becomes very clear on who you can hire, like who are gonna be your A players, your B players, and your C players.

    James Marland: And you try to hire A and B players. So, yeah.

    Whitney Owens: That's great. All right, so somebody listening right now is thinking, James, I need a virtual assistant to answer my calls, but I can't seem to find one. What recommendations do you have?

    James Marland: Okay, so I can empathize with you, especially like the solo people because I think it's hard.

    James Marland: I, I think the solo, uh, offices where you, you don't have quite the, the opex. Operations expense. I've been listening to Julie Harris's book, uh, profit First for Therapists, so I'm starting to talk like it, it's on Audible right now. Ugh. It's amazing. Anyways. Mm-hmm. Maybe your first, maybe the first tip is to get on profit first and start saving for a virtual assistant, but there you go with a, with a virtual assistant account.

    James Marland: But how do you find, how do you find them? I think, uh, I was, I was, uh, Talking with my wife before this interview, and she's a virtual assistant manager and she's like, She, she said I would avoid hiring friends. So that's my first

    Whitney Owens: tip. Um, amen to that. Oh,

    James Marland: really? Have you had, have you heard about like what's your, do you have a I, so,

    Whitney Owens: okay, so it's funny,

    James Marland: I've been thinking about this.

    James Marland: Hide the names, hide the names of the guilty, but do you have a

    Whitney Owens: story? I actually do. I'll tell it to you offline, but it was a very painful story. I've always said, don't hire your friend. Something really awful just happened recently. Mm-hmm. And I had to let someone go. That I dearly cared about, so, or she had to resign.

    Whitney Owens: So anyway, do not hire your friends unless you want to end that friendship. Hmm.

    James Marland: Wow. That's definitive. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, she, uh, she, she, she, my wife told me a story of a, an office that hired a friend that. The friend was, you know, they had time, but they didn't have the experience and so they were making mistakes and costing the office money.

    James Marland: And then it became very difficult to separate, you know, work from friendship and it, it, it was hard to let them go. It was hard to fire. It was just hurt feelings all the way around. So, uh, I would say just avoid hiring friends and maybe even family members if you can, if they don't have the experience.

    James Marland: Don't hire

    Whitney Owens: family members. Don't. Unless it's like your spouse. Like I do see spouses working together, but like, I, I, I don't, I mean, sometimes it works for your kids maybe, but like, I wouldn't hire a sibling, a cousin and aunt and uncle, I mean, yeah. Yeah.

    James Marland: And I, and I think I'm talking more about key roles here.

    James Marland: Like I think your scheduler is a key role if mm-hmm. If you mm-hmm. If you hire somebody to do social media for you for a month, I don't know that. Yeah. You know what I, I, I think I should stick with what you said. Don't do it. Um, just you're gonna save yourself. Even the pain, the pain of the loss of friendship is probably less than the pain of like, oh, I missed out on, you know, a good thing there.

    James Marland: It's just Right. Much less pain. Uh, so my, this, oh. I like going with agencies. I mean, I work for an agency, so I'm a little biased, but I think agencies in the end save the owner time because if VAs last like a year or less, it just feels like there's a lot of rotation now. My, my main experience was during C O V I D and I felt like I was rehiring people every three to six months.

    James Marland: Just there was a rapid, just things were changing and nothing was settled. So I felt like I was hiring people the last. Stat I read is like, assistants and secretary people stay about two years on average. So just remember, if you hire somebody or even, you know, hire a virtual assistant, they're not gonna stay with you forever.

    James Marland: So what is, what is your time worth in training? I, I love. If I could afford it, I would love to hire somebody that has like a management layer. You know, the management layer does coverage. The management layer does training. The management layer helps you handle, you know, uh, customer service slash you, uh, performance issues, quality issues, so you have a backup that can save you, you know, if a couple hours a week.

    James Marland: In training and things. So what's that 10 or 15 extra dollars of management layer? Like a, a virtual assistant maybe can be 20 or $30. An agency can be 40 or $50. So what does that extra management cost Save you? Well, what's an hour of your time worth? You know that it, it's just, It makes sense to me to hire somebody that will help you cover the, like if somebody's out or somebody leaves unexpectedly, the, the company I used to work for, we could cover people in a week to two weeks, you know, back to almost full coverage after rearranging things.

    James Marland: So what is that worth? You know? What's that? What's the time worth for you to like, Go back out and like, go on Indeed or wherever and try to find somebody. So that, that's one thing. Um, the, the, uh, the productive therapist comes to mind with Uriah. Uh, he, he does a great job with, um, hiring people and, you know, I've met Rio Ray and just, you know, I really trust him and his work.

    James Marland: So something like that, us. I get referrals from people that you know. So if, if somebody's using an agency, ask, ask, uh, once again, you might join a Facebook group or something and ask what agencies do you use? And are you, are you, um, are you happy with, you know, the other thing is, uh, if you're looking for a virtual assistant, you could ask.

    James Marland: People who have hired somebody either for part-time and see if they, their virtual assistant that they're happy with mm-hmm. Has some hours that you could use. Often a solo office doesn't use more than eight to 10 hours a month. That's, that was our experience. Do you have anything different? Like, how much time do you think somebody would need for scheduling for a solo practice that maybe, you know, does 25 to 30 clients a week with.

    Whitney Owens: I think some of it depends on how much they wanna delegate. Yeah. I mean, some people don't wanna delegate very much. When I think about my first, um, assistant that I hired, I probably had her for like two hours a day maybe. Oh, okay. An hour and a half, two hours. But she was not trained. I trained her myself, you know?

    Whitney Owens: Yeah. And so maybe not as efficient, even though I thought she was fabulous. Um, so Well, yeah. I think it depends on kind of what you're looking for and what they can and can't do. I think some virtual assistants can do a lot more like, Hey, they have some social media, or hey, they can also take calls or write a blog.

    Whitney Owens: Some of them mm-hmm. Don't have those talents. Right. So it's kinda figuring that out too. Um, well I wanna transition here with our last few minutes and talk a little bit about some offerings that you have for the audience.

    James Marland: Sure. So first off, uh, I really believe in the behavior interview questions and, uh, helping you with job descriptions.

    James Marland: So I'm gonna, Put one of those up there on my website. It'll, it's just course creation studio.com/wise practice. This'll be in the show notes and it'll have, uh, it'll, I'll email you a, uh, a sample job description with sample questions for an intake. Coordinator, um, you, you're probably gonna wanna adjust it a little bit for your specific behaviors, but I, I have in the job description, 10 behaviors you might wanna look for and you can adjust it and adjust the questions as needed.

    James Marland: And then I also have sample, uh, I have like easy, medium and hard questions just for you. So there's about 20 or 30 questions in that, um, in that, Uh, behavior interview questions, just that you can look at and like adjust for your own. For your own personality. So I wanna, uh, I really don't want people to hire bad virtual assistants.

    James Marland: Like, it, it, it is like an anchor. You're instead of a sale. Yeah. If you're looking, if you're looking for somebody to help and, and even like, just the relief, if you're looking for that relief and they don't have the right behavior and you have to start over. I've, I've had therapists cry to me about how hard it.

    James Marland: So I just want you to avoid that. So I'm gonna give you a job description for that. I also have a, uh, uh, one of my favorite, uh, Facebook groups. I. I created it and, uh, it's called assistance automation and AI for mental health providers. It just gives me a chance to help people and ask questions and talk through things.

    James Marland: And then it's a just a group of people that are doing that. So if you would please join that group and ask your question, I'll help you out as much as possible. And there's a lot of other people in there that are excited about AI and automation and, and assistance. So you'll get some group perspective there.

    James Marland: Um, and then I, uh, I do have a VA course coming out, so if you wanted to get on that list, I'll put that on the page. Um, that should be coming out in the fall sometime. So, um, and, and it's just more of like, how do you delegate, how do you hire behavior, interview questions, job descriptions, um, How do you help your VA with decision making?

    James Marland: How do you monitor and manage them? Just all sorts of little things that I've learned over the years to help practice owners do a better job with using and getting return on investment or benefit from their virtual assistants. All right. That was a mouthful. Thanks Whitney, for letting me say all that.

    Whitney Owens: Well, thank you. Well, thanks for making the page and those are all, um, great tips and the questions for interviewing. I think all that and those behaviors are gonna be super helpful for people. Um, and I just wanna, again, just speak to the work that you do. Like you have helped me in my own business. And so, um, I think there's a lot to be said for that.

    Whitney Owens: And so I am recommending you to people when they're looking for someone to help with course creation, social media. And other AI questions like to definitely reach out to you because you've been just a huge help to me as well.

    James Marland: Well, well, thank you so much. It's, uh, it's great to have good people to work with.

    James Marland: Like I just get so much enjoyment out of this job and interfacing with. Interfacing is such a cold word. Just having a, a connection with you and your, your group and your people, it's, it's been a blessing to me. Hmm,

    Whitney Owens: that's wonderful. Well, we appreciate you and I encourage people to check you out and go to the um, site that you're making for us and everything's gonna be in the show notes.

    Whitney Owens: Great. So thanks for coming on the show. Thanks, Whitney. ​

    ​

Whitney Owens https://whitneyowens.com
Previous

Finding the Best Fit Therapist for Your Practice with Mike Michalowicz | WP41
Next

WP 39 | Top Leadership Skills You May Not Expect with Michael Deitrich