WP 12 | Should I Move from 1099s to W2s? - Live Consulting wtih Bewindi Jackson

Jan 17

Show Summary

In this podcast episode, Whitney Owens, a licensed therapist and practice consultant, and Bewindi Jackson, a licensed therapist and telehealth practice owner, discuss the differences between hiring therapists as 1099 independent contractors versus hiring them as W2 employees. They also touch on the advantages and disadvantages of each model, such as independence, financial benefits, and turnover rates. Additionally, they delve into the importance of considering the values that are important to the practice and how they align with the chosen business model. They also discuss the importance of running the numbers and making sure the practice is profitable while also providing the best experience for clients and therapists.

Differences between 1099 and W2 Employees for a therapy office

As you would expect, there are differences between hiring therapists as 1099 independent contractors versus hiring them as W2 employees. They mention that one of the advantages of 1099s is the independence and flexibility it provides for both the therapist and the practice owner, as well as the financial advantage of not having to pay for taxes or supplies. However, they also point out that turnover tends to be higher with 1099s and that values such as community and stress-free management are important to consider when deciding which model to use. They also mention that it's important to make sure you stay in the healthy percentage range when paying out to contractors and that it's important to have enough clients to make it worth hiring them. It is also mentioned that it's good to consult with an attorney to know what is allowed in your state.

The advantages and disadvantages of contractors vs employees in a therapy office

They emphasized the importance of understanding the regulations in your state, and consulting with an attorney, to determine which model works best for your practice. The hosts also discussed the advantages and disadvantages of each model. The 1099 model offers more independence for the therapist, as they are able to work at multiple practices and manage their own schedules. Additionally, the practice owner does not have to pay for taxes or supplies for the therapist. However, there is typically more turnover with practices that have 1099 therapists. On the other hand, the W2 model offers more stability and less turnover, as therapists are usually only working for one practice. The practice owner also has more control over the therapist's schedule and can provide benefits such as health insurance. However, the practice owner is responsible for paying taxes and other expenses for the therapist. Overall, it's important for practice owners to consider the values that are important to them and how they align with the different models.

Staying Profitable when hiring in a therapy office

As noted in the show, owners need to understand the importance of staying within a healthy percentage range when paying out to contractors in order to ensure profitability for the business. They emphasized that it is important to make sure that you are making enough profit and that the cost of hiring contractors is worth it by having a sufficient number of clients. They also mentioned that it's important to make sure you stay in the healthy percentage range when paying out to contractors and that it's important to have enough clients to make it worth hiring them. This is important to consider when making the decision to hire therapists as 1099 independent contractors or W2 employees. Overall, it is important to be mindful of the financial aspects of the business and ensure that the hiring decision is sustainable for the practice.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the podcast discussed the differences between hiring therapists as 1099 independent contractors versus hiring them as W2 employees. The hosts outlined the pros and cons of each model, including the level of independence, financial benefits, and turnover rates. They emphasized the importance of carefully considering which model aligns best with the values and goals of the practice. Additionally, they stressed the importance of maintaining a healthy percentage range when paying out to contractors and ensuring that there are enough clients to make it worth hiring them. Overall, the podcast provided valuable insights and considerations for practice owners looking to expand their team.

Links from the Show

Register for the Webinar: How to Grow a Faith-based Practice
Against All Odds Professional Counseling Services
Bewindi books and podcast resources
Social Media for Bewindi:
Instagram: @empowered2serve
Facebook Link for AAOPCS
Facebook Link for Bewindi

Connect with Whitney

Quotes from the episode

"When we talk about 1099s, we're saying someone signs a contract to do a certain job for you. So the idea of a painter comes to your house, they bring their own paint, they come when they want to come." - Whitney Owens
"The other some of the other advantages of a 1099 is the financial advantage of you're not having to pay their taxes." - Whitney Owens
"We do tend to see more turnover with practices that have 1099s and less clinician turnover with the W2 practice." - Whitney Owens

Should I Move from 1099s to W2s - Live Consulting wtih Bewindi Jackson WP 12
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Whitney Owens: Welcome back to The Wise Practice Podcast. You are listening to episode 12 and we're gonna talk today. how and if, or I should say if and how adding W two s to your practice, making that transition to 10 99 or maybe figuring out that might not be the best transition for you. So that is what we're gonna be talking about today.
So wanted to remind you, we are doing a live consulting series in the month of January. So I'm bringing in the members of the Wise Practice community to ask questions so you can kind of see. Who they are, what they do, and hear me do some consulting and we can all kind of grow through the process. So I'm really looking forward to today's question because I love talking about 10 90 nines and W two s, but I'm also looking forward specifically to today because I have my good friend, but Wendy Jackson, I get to say you're married name today.
So I'm really happy to have you here on the show. Um, let me give a background about the Wendy and then we will jump in and learn more about her. So she is the founder of Against All Odds Professional Counseling Services. She provides therapy to professionals, young adults, and couples who desire to improve their marriage.
Wendy also provides Christ-centered counseling for those who ask. She is the host of the podcast, empowered to empower You all things Jesus in mental health and wellness. And each episode is packed with information, inspirational and insight. She is also the author of Empowerment for You, encouragement for your Spiritual and Emotional Wellness, and her latest release is Empowerment for You Reflection Workbook.
She is powered by her values of Faith in. Service, fun, freedom, and empowerment. She has an infectious smile and a dynamic personality, which often leaves an imprint on someone's life. This, that is very true, . So I'm already smiling, just looking at you. So thank you for taking the time to come on the show
Bewindi Jackson: today.
Oh my gosh. Thank you for offering me the opportunity to be with you. What a unique way to spend time with you, with me. So
Whitney Owens: thank you. Uh, well, I always love podcasting with you, so, but before we, uh, get into your question, I would love for you to share with the group, kind of your, your a little bit of your practice journey and where you're
Bewindi Jackson: at.
Absolutely. So the practice started November 20, um, 18. Uh, I started off as a solo practitioner, like morning, like many people doing it part-time, but, and just kind of learning my way through private practice while working full-time for other jobs In July, 2020, in the midst of the pandemic, the Lord led me to jump.
into private practice full-time. So in the midst of the pandemic, um, the, the, the, the clients were busting through the seams. And now I was serving ma many more people, probably more than 25, 25 to 26, 27 a week by myself. Mm-hmm. . Um, at that point I've been, I, I transitioned from in an office setting to virtual, uh, About March, 2020.
And I've been virtual since, and I, I don't plan to go into office, uh, right now unless something changes in the future. But I really love working from home. Um, about October, 2021, I, you know, was learning more about this idea of I cannot do it by myself. And I believe the law was le leading me into, you need to hire, right?
And then I joined your mastermind, uh, for that reason to help me figure out the. and the process of what? How do you transition from so practitioner to a group practitioner? And so I had like my pioneer therapist, um, Emily, who, who just kind of jumped in there with me, was a friend of mine and, but really, really started doing really good work.
And then from that, that led me and build my, my courage and confidence. Really, your master was instrumental with that. Um, hiring four additional practitioners. , um, in April. So now of course, two of those have fallen off. Not really fallen off, but they went on to do their own thing. Mm-hmm. and I that 100%.
And they left in a very good way. It was in a way of integrity, making sure that they continued to see their clients, um, taking care of their pa, their caseloads before they left. So I had really positive experiences there. So now I'm down to. In addition to me the Three Musketeers. And, and so now I'm at a place of, you know, trying to see less clients, but really focus on helping them build their clientele so that I can focus my, my talents and my giftings in other directions, whether it's, um, another counseling network doing.
Speaking engagements, doing things in my books, serving in other ways, supervision, consultation. One of the things I love to do while being a supervisor or a boss is provide that supervisors that teaching, supervision consultation. I really love doing that cuz I love growing where I am though I was in the a, I'm in the state of Tennessee, just in case anybody was curious, I'm licensed in Tennessee to to serve and I was in a social work type meeting and something was said around the lines of,
If a 10 99 A L M S W has to serve on the L C S W, that's, that's current around, you know mm-hmm. , um, but a 10 99 if a L M S W or somebody that's seeking licensure needs their hours to count, if they're 10 90 nines, the board may not approve their hours. And that's when I was like, . Oh my goodness, what do I do with that?
Now that's very vague because somebody could get their hours 10 99 and they could slide through and they could still be approved, and then they go towards their licensure. So now I was at an impasse of, okay, do I stay 10 99? Which I really did not want to do W two from the beginning. Um, I felt like starting to 99 was an easier and less complicated process for me, and so, And I have, I have a staff who really likes the flexibility and the freedom to track everything, and she does not really wanna do w2.
And she, she has another job of her own. And then I have another one that's like, but I really, I really want these hours to count. I get more hours with you. And so now I'm, I, I have talked to my accountant, do I state to 90. I've also heard I could just change the payment structure and that could work. So instead of paying the percentage, I could just pay a flat fee for every staff and not have to worry about having to make all these changes.
So I'm just outta a place where I just need. Consultation guidance and really understanding what are the benefits of either or the benefits of 10 99 versus w2. What are the best decisions for me to, to take at this point?
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, but Wendy, this is a great question to bring today. I also wanna say you've done awesome.
Like I know you're kind of like, oh, then I lost those two and this, that, and, and. We all learned through growing our group practice. Like I lost my first two in my first year and now look where I'm sitting. So you're gonna grow and learn, and I'm glad that it went as well as it did. Mm-hmm. ? Um, you also have, so you have three and then you Yes.
Okay. So you have a group practice of four therapists in under 18. Pretty much, right? Yes. So I just wanna say that's great. Thank you. You know, you've worked very hard to get to that point. Um, so yeah. So, okay, let's talk about 10 0 9 and W two s. So I specifically want to encourage you to really search out this.
Advice you got about the L C S W thing, um, and then I can definitely also help connect you to people in Tennessee that would know that potentially. But that would be our first step because if you find out that you have to do W two for someone to get their hours, then it makes a lot more sense to consider that option.
Mm-hmm. . Okay. So that would be my first, my first thought. I have not heard that in any state yet. But it doesn't mean that it's not accurate because when I started hiring 10 90 nines, we looked into that in the state of Georgia. My, actually, my lawyer did, he looked into it for me. Mm-hmm. Um, so that could be an option for you as well, or you could just call the board yourself and try to figure out whether it's coming from, or, you know, a lot of times they're rumors out there because things are coming down the pipes and they haven't yet.
So maybe figuring out it's not gonna come down the pipe and when is it gonna come down? Mm-hmm. , because it makes sense that that could potentially. . Sure. Right? Mm-hmm. . Okay. So then we wanna look at our business model, right? We never wanna do something because this is what everyone's telling me to do, or this is what someone else is doing.
What works for you in your practice? Mm-hmm. . So the 10 99 versus w2, let's talk about some of the advantages of the 10 99. Um, first of all, more independence, right? So when we talk about 10, 90, 90 nines, we're saying, Someone signs a contract to do a certain job for you. So the idea of a painter comes to your house, they bring their own paint, they come when they want to come.
You hire them to do a certain job. They typically are painting multiple houses. It's not just you. So it's the same thing when we hire contract therapists. You're hiring them to come in and do therapy. , you pay them an amount for that. It could be a percentage or a flat fee, however you decide to do it.
Mm-hmm. , and then typically they work at other jobs. Usually 10 90 nines are not full-time in your practice, because that looks a little bit more like a w2. It's not always that way. And it's good to always have an attorney that you could talk to about these questions within your state that can answer those.
Sure. . Um, the other, some of the other advantages of a 10 99 is the financial advantage of you're not having to pay their taxes. You're not paying for their supplies. They're doing that themselves. They're managing their own schedule. And so you don't, as a business owner, you might feel like you've got some more freedom to not have to manage people.
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. some of the, um, It's, it's interesting though, because I think those are some of the advantages of a W two as well in the sense of Yes, we're, when you have a W two, and, and by the way, just to clarify, W two is someone who works just for, usually just for you. They can come at will in most states or be fired at will.
Um, and you can really tell them more of what to. Right, so they, they can have some independence. It doesn't mean that you have to constantly micromanage them if you can set up the right systems and processes for it. Mm-hmm. , um, also with the W2 model, yes, you're gonna be financially covering more for them.
but you just change your numbers. You don't pay them as much so that you can compensate for paying more in their taxes, paying for their supplies, things like that. Mm-hmm. . So I think it, I think the other thing to really think through with the, with this transition or potential transition is what kind of model of business do you wanna have?
If you want, if you wanna sustain more long-term people, we do tend to see the W2 model is more sustainable and the reason is, You're offering benefits to people, which is a big deal in the mental health world because a lot of people stay in agency jobs simply because they're getting health insurance and they need it, right?
So if you can be a private practice owner and offer some of those things, sometimes that helps people make the transition. , but you don't have to have all that set up. You don't have to make your business your everything. You can have 10 90 nines. They come in, they do their job, they go home, and you and everyone kind of manages their own thing and there's nothing wrong with that.
I think it's thinking about what kind of business model you want to have.
Bewindi Jackson: I when initially when you talked about that in the Mastermind, the 10 99 was in immediately attractive to me because mm-hmm. , my own value professionally and personally is freedom. Uhhuh . Yes. I like being boss. I like being direct, but I don't wanna manage people.
Now I end up doing some of that and I may, you know, Become a little directive in supervision or consultation or in terms of sharing suggestions or documentation practices or whatever the case may be, or follow up with clients. But I don't wanna, I don't, and I think all the other things that I probably may be overthinking in terms of, you know, payroll costs, um, Uh, tax, payroll, taxes, I mean, and all the things that come, come along with that now.
So I, I, I, I really prefer the 10 99. I'm gonna do some more research about, if that's not an option, it's not working for me. Cuz most people want to come to get good experiences and they have goals to get their license. Mm-hmm. , you know, you have some people that's like, look, I'm just, I'm just satisfied being an lms W or L P C and I just wanna work for you because I like you.
Right. My, my thing is I have to do some more research on that part, but you mentioned a W two. If they have a full-time employment over here and they have a W two, but they're working part-time, is that, how does that
Whitney Owens: work? They can have two jobs as W two s, as long as the other job's. Okay. As long as each employer's Okay.
With the other. Right. So like at my practice I have W two s. I will not allow them to work at other practices that are the same as mine. Okay. Because it's a con. I find it as a conflict of interest, and then I'm spending all this time and energy marketing them. But if they were a 10 99, they would have the right to do that, and there would be nothing I could do about it, or just choose not to hire them as a 10 99, I guess.
But that's the role of a 10 99.
Bewindi Jackson: Mm-hmm. . Okay.
Whitney Owens: We do tend to see more turnover with practices that have 10 90 nines and less clinician turnover with the W2 practice. and my friend Alison Pigeon, um, she's a great example of this. So she made this transition, gosh, I think it was 2019 or 18, I think it might have been 19. And at the time, her practice was somewhere around 12, 14 clinicians, and she could not get past that.
Like every time that she would go to hire, she'd lose someone. And then when she transitioned to the W two, she kept growing. Now, I don't know what she's at now, cuz sometimes she can't remember, but she's definitely over 30 clinicians at this point. Wow. Right. And so we do tend to see that people stay at jobs longer.
And I'm gonna knock on wood here, I've haven't had anyone leave in over a year and a half. And the reason the therapist left before was cuz they were moving. So you know it happens.
Bewindi Jackson: But this is their full-time job with you, right?
Whitney Owens: Not all of 'em. Not all of them. Some of 'em are full-time, some of 'em are part-time.
I have some moms, you know, who don't wanna work full-time, so they take on a part-time caseload. But they're all W two s and they don't work at other practices. I feel like it also allows 'em to be more committed to the work they do with us. Um, but, but one reason I love the W two as well, it has more to do with what values are important.
So, you know, I love how you said freedom was important to you, and if you feel like a ten nine model provides that for you, that's, that's important. Mm-hmm. . Now, do you think you can be a W2 boss and provide freedom? Let the, they could still make their own schedules and you can allow that, you can approve that.
Um, but for me, like I, the value of community is really high for me. And so I wanted to, and, and the value of not being stressed about your business, like I wanted to hire people that didn't have to worry about taking calls, marketing themselves, health insurance, you know, and I wanted them to feel like they could take a day off and get paid for it, because in private practice that doesn't.
Right. So I can provide all those to a W two. I can also provide them bonuses. We can have fun dinners out. I can take them to a baseball game. And like that element of family was important to me. But that's not always the best for every practice, right?
Bewindi Jackson: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And I'm thinking about the, the uniqueness.
I am completely telehealth. We are completely telehealth. Yes. And so, I don't have the luxury of, of doing that because I don't have an office where we're congregating. Mm-hmm. . And of course we could, you know, there's still that genuineness, authenticity. I could still check on them. There's still things that we could do, um, for sure to still create some of that culture and community.
But, so I'm just trying to think of when you ask what. For me, obviously I have to make sure I have to some more research to do to see if I have to go this route then that it is what it is. But can you talk a little bit more about when you said you could be a W2 boss and provide freedom? So if I, well, I have a second question to that, but talk a little bit more about that.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, I think it depends on what kind of freedom, what freedom means to you. So maybe it's a schedule, right? So when I hire people, I'll say, when are your ideal times that you wanna. Giving them that freedom. But sometimes I do have to say, Hey, you know, but we don't have anyone in the office at this time. I need you to come in this time.
Um, freedom that if they wanna go see their child's play. Like I let them do that. That makes sense. You know, I don't come behind them. Now if I saw that they were taking off at one o'clock every Wednesday, every week, then I'd be like, Hmm, what's going on here? Um, but I'm not always going behind their back and micromanaging things unless I start to see that there's a problem where they're not keeping their caseload up.
Another thing I really like about W two s is I feel like I can serve clients better. And the reason is I schedule the clients and I determine if they get 'em or. . And I say that because sometimes therapists might say they don't want another client or I'm not sure I can see that client. But the truth is that's what we're here for.
Like we're here to serve. And so if that means that you have to be uncomfortable for a moment to serve a client, like you actually might need to be pushed in that way. So I can tell you one time that happened and my therapist was like, I don't really wanna see that client. I said, well, I really need you to at least do the first session because this person's in need.
And she did the session and she said it went really well. And then she kept seeing the client twice a week for like four weeks. . You know, another day I had a client, I had a therapist call out 20 minutes before the session of a new client, and so I jumped in there. I said, well, I'll see the client, you know, and so I feel like the W2 model allows a little bit more of that camaraderie in helping one another.
Mm-hmm. than I see a lot of wt, I mean, 10 99 models with a therapist schedule their own clients, they take their own intake calls, which would make sense with that kind of a model. But the fellow, the W2 allowed me to serve a little bit more the way I wanted to. . Yeah.
Bewindi Jackson: Okay. Hmm. There are some things to think about because I do things a little uniquely.
Like I, I, you know, I may sh refer a client. I re I track the referrals. I may refer, refer this client, potential client to this therapist and say, Hey, I want you to reach out to them within 24 hours. You know, connect with them, schedule a consultation. Keep me posted of the. and that way I'm able to see what's happening with that client to make sure that we're not missing any, anybody that's calling.
Um, so I'm doing, like I said, I'm doing some direction. Of course, I just have, in terms of the model that I want to keep, I really like the 10 99. Can you speak to, are you aware of. So like successful 10 99 practices that are, that, that do have sustainability, that do have, that do not have a high turnover.
Can you speak to that? Do you know, are you aware of, of that at all? .
Whitney Owens: Um, so of course I don't know everyone in every practice. Sure. But I would say most of the people I know have transitioned to a w2 mm-hmm. when they hit somewhere between the 10 to 15 therapist level. If they have been to 99 s and they've been set on that model, if they do change, it's when they change.
I do not know. A a 10 99 model, past 15 therapist. Okay. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I just am not aware of it. Yeah, that makes
Bewindi Jackson: sense. That makes sense. Yeah. Lemme ask you this. So what I'm hearing you say is that the benefits, so you said the benefits of the 10 99 more independence, um, more freedom, not having to pay the taxes or the supplies.
They're kind of managing their own schedule, keeping track of everything for i r s and so, so and so on and so forth. The w2, um, there's more direction for the employer and, um, I I didn't hear any other benefits. I heard I, I'm cuz I'm, I'm still focusing on the, the cost and the, the volume. Mm-hmm. , so can you speak to, so don't
Whitney Owens: focus yet, don't focus on the cost.
Okay. Because we will work your money to make it work. Okay. And I, I tell you a certainty, practices that switch and have a W two make more profit. I've seen it across the board. I can't explain. It has a way that the money changes, the way the taxes roll, but we do tend to see better profit. There's also less turnover of therapists, which is very expensive.
Not only the, the clients in losing that, but all the time in energy that goes into hiring. Oh my gosh. Like, so if you can keep your therapist, you're gonna make a lot more money than having them turn over. so that that's kind of what we tend to find. So you just have to work your numbers to make the W two model work now.
But Wendy, what I also wanna say is don't fix something that isn't broke. Right? Right. If you're happy with the model that you have and you're not having problems, then, and if you're not. Dying to do w2. Don't feel the pressure to have to make the change unless you find out with the state that you need to.
Mm-hmm. . Now, if there are other problems going on, such as maybe you're not having profit, maybe you're feeling overwhelmed with the tasks of your practice. Mm, we wanna focus on those. and we can, and then if we realize that the W2 model would help prevent those, then we could talk about that. But it could just be, Hey, here's some changes you need to make to make the 10 99 model more successful
Bewindi Jackson: for you.
That makes sense. That makes sense. Let me ask you this. Um, what if, what are your thoughts about percentage versus flat rate? Like, I've thought about, I've, I've gotten some feedback and consultation from a colleague about, If you some ways to work around that, and I know you can't, you don't know everything per state.
Um, but in Tennessee, I was told there's some ways to work around that is just offer or just change your pay structure instead of doing a percentage. So the percentage is you see a client, you get paid. The flat rate is whether you see a client or not. You still get. Whether cancellations, calling clients, playing a flat rate for every person, or just playing a flat rate instead of the percentage.
Like what are your thoughts about that?
Whitney Owens: Okay. My, my first, you saw my eyes go up. Um, my, my first worry right there was just make sure that you're boo doing 10 99 correctly. Mm-hmm. , because the i r s will get you, if you're trying to run a 10 99 and treat them like a w. That's, that's a really unclear distinction and you can get in big trouble.
So I, and my eyes got big at this idea of paying them when they don't see clients, because that's what you do with the W two. Right? Attending 99, they do a job, you pay for that job. You don't pay them when they don't do the job. But a W two, you might. So, um, that's clear. I think that mm-hmm. ,
Bewindi Jackson: that's clear. No, that's clear.
I heard that and I, I was like paying somebody. For, for not doing the work. I mean, I, I mean, I know there, there may be things that they may be doing that are free. For example, when they come to staff meetings, I'm not paying for that. And I don't know if I could add a creative thing with a 10 99 to pay for staff meetings or when they're calling clients for consultations, they're not being paid for that.
And so I don't know if there's ways to work around that for a 10 99 structure versus a w2. Not
Whitney Owens: that I'm aware of. Okay. But something to ask an attorney about. Yeah. I, I would be really careful about going there. I understand. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And so when you were asking about flat rate percentage, I don't have a huge preference on one or the other.
What's most important is that you stay in the healthy percentage that you allow yourself to make money. Too many people go from solo to group. They hustle, they work hard, they supervise, and they make less money than they made As a solo practice owner, this is not how it should be. And so making sure you run your numbers right so that you're making profit.
So if it's, I'm just gonna throw some numbers out to help us here. Okay, so let's say you're charging a hundred dollars a session. Let's say you're paying out at 50% to your contractor. If you're paying 50% to your contractor, you give them $50, right? So you either say, Hey, I'm gonna give you 50%, or, Hey, I'm gonna give you $50.
It's all the same. The only thing you gotta be careful about is, is the contractor gonna lower their rate? Because technically a contractor determines their rate, not you. And so they might say, okay, well I'm only gonna, I'm gonna let the client pay 80. , well then you're stuck with paying $50 because that's what the contract said instead of 50% of $80.
I see. That would be the thing to be careful about.
Bewindi Jackson: I see. That makes sense. That makes sense. Okay.
Whitney Owens: But remember with the contractor model, do not go over 60%. Yes.
Bewindi Jackson: Okay. That was very clear in the Mastermind. I'm, I'm at 40% .
Whitney Owens: Oh, you pay them 40%. Mm-hmm. Great. And you're supervising
Bewindi Jackson: a lot of them, correct? Not, well, I'm supervis, I'm doing group supervision, consultation, supervision.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. So it, it includes ca, you know, chart, uh, case reviews and education, um, any challenges that they're facing, building their caseload, things like that. . I really enjoy that part. Yeah.
Whitney Owens: And then the other thing that we, I see a lot of practice owners struggle with is just making sure that they have enough clients to make it worth hiring them.
Bewindi Jackson: That's where I am. So I'm, I am at the point where my focus is to help them build their caseload and some of that they have to do too. Cause I can't do everything. They're on my website. They're, you know, when I do videos, I'm saying schedule a consultation with our therapist today. I'm, I'm, my focus is to drive people to them not to see me when I, when I see referrals coming in, sending it to them so they can hear their voice and not my voice.
Cuz if they hear my voice, they're gonna wanna work with me. Mm-hmm. . . And so I'm trying to do things, but I'm, I'm also trying to encourage them, and I know they're busy too, cuz they work other jobs, but moving away from the discomfort, whether it's reels or sharing 1, 2, 3 tips or you don't even have to share your face.
You can do a Audi, an audio reel or just something that you love to share, you know? And so I'm working from that. I'm working on that to build a caseload. At this point, all three of them don't have five, five, at least five clients. And so I'm still trying to work on them building mm-hmm. and I believe that happens, I'll be able to see more, um, profit and, and just things working to see how things are working growth wise.
Yeah.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. . Yep. And that's the other difference with the 10 99. They're responsible for helping build their caseload more so than with the w2.
Bewindi Jackson: That makes sense. Mm-hmm. . So, yes. Can I pivot a little bit and ask you, um, you know, you, I love the work that you're doing with therapists and especially faith-based practice owners and really sharing your heart and your expertise and your knowledge and your talents and helping to build and develop.
And I thank you for that because it's such a unique thing to have. Of course we have this, there's this huge piece where we have to trust God and we have to pray and we have to, to, to really, really approach our businesses from a faith perspective. And then there's the other part that's practical. Like, okay, what do I need to do?
How can I use talents? When you have therapists, um, you there are multi-talented, right? Have we all have some vari various levels of giftings? We're not just called to be counselors. And so for me it's like what can I do to diversify or increase income without costing my stress? You know? What are some ideas that you have found to be helpful to look into to, to work towards increasing income?
Does that make sense what I'm
Whitney Owens: asking? Yes. Make it as simple as possible. Grow the things you already have in. Starting something new is a lot more energy. Now, if you know that, you know that you need to start something new, you feel the Lord saying it. You know, consider the logic, all the things actually we talked about yesterday, huh?
In our business planning meeting in wise practice. But, um, Yeah, like I just think that you can grow what you already have. Like if your therapist were to each get five more clients, all three of 'em, think about the revenue difference that would make for you. So I think that's your. Easiest thing, you know, they say lowest hanging fruit or what's the very thing that's gonna make everything easier?
Well, that would make everything easier if you're, so then I would be doing a lot of the work on marketing, which is a whole nother podcast that we could do on marketing and website development and things like that. . Um, and then, but when you already have a fantastic podcast mm-hmm. and so I would really be trying to optimize that cuz you've had it going for quite some time, maybe working on what would a sponsorship look like.
And it doesn't have to be a big sponsorship. It could be something small or do an affiliate to go along with your book that you've already written. Mm-hmm. , um, and this is like a side note, but I've had some people recently reach out to me via Instagram wanting me to read their. And so they mailed them to me and made it as easy as possible and I read their books and posted about 'em.
So just giving you another idea, something maybe to get some more traction on your book and on your workbook. Um, being able to put that out there
Bewindi Jackson: too. Yeah, the, the, I have so many questions. I probably wanna pick your brain about like how, like what affiliates where to get sponsorships. Uh, you know, I'm gonna have to do some research with that cause.
I wouldn't even know where to start.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, yeah. Well, you've got the juices going and so. Um, we're gonna talk a few more minutes about a few other things, but I wanted to just come back around and ask, do you feel like this consulting session has been helpful? And what are your, like, action steps now? My
Bewindi Jackson: action steps for sure.
Number one is to first of all, get clarity as to what I heard in the session. You know it about this 10 99 and lc is in your license. That's the first step for me. And then the second step is, so for, so with that step, if I don't have to necessarily, cuz I wanted to be careful not to move impulsively. So if I don't have to change 10 99 to W two, then um, Leave it as it is, focus on my model, but also the next step will be to focus on the, the marketing efforts to increase the caseloads, to help the, the, the therapists, increase the caseloads and be comfortable with my model.
Be comfortable with that is aligning with my values that I don't have to change anything if I wanna change the pay structure. And make it a flat fee. Fine. If I, if I wanna leave it the same as a percentage, great. But I love how, what you said about be careful about the flat rate, um, because the, the fees can change.
So that's the first step. First step is do the research, get some clarity. Second step is focusing on what I could grow, um, with the marketing and the caseloads.
Whitney Owens: Perfect. Wonderful. And then, but Wendy, um, I know you have some great books and resources for the audience today. Could you talk a little bit about that and where they can get that information?
Bewindi Jackson: Absolutely. So the books as mentioned, are empowerment for you, encouragement. For your emotional and spiritual wellness, those, the other book is a workbook. The workbook is empowered to empower You for Reflection workbook. So the workbook is based on the podcast. So I have several episodes with reflection prompts.
The episodes are in there. You listen to the episode and it kind of have, it has guided reflection prompts to help a person. We really, really love to reflect, to sit and reflect and meditate on what they heard and move towards application. Both of those resources are available on my website, be wendy.com, or you can go on Amazon and put be Wendy, Bob.
Of course it has my maiden name cuz when I wrote the books I was single. As a dollar Bill . So, um, website, be wendy.com or Amazon, just search for be Wendy, Bob, and you'll find the books there. Um, and they're, they're really you. The, the book is written from a place of faith and mental health. I share a little bit about my experiences, but I really share a lot of.
Practical tips of managing your mind, things, uh, including dep, you know, depression comparison, dealing with rejection. How do you know you need a therapist? What is therapy? So, I, I wrote it in a way that's very easy to read, um, where I have heard a story where a teenager read it and, and, and was doing better in her mental health to older people who are reading it and, and find it very helpful to them.
It's very, it's, it's a really easy, easy to read. Oh, that's
Whitney Owens: beautiful. I love that. And you also offer consultations for
Bewindi Jackson: practice. Absolutely. I am open to consultations and supervision for emerging professionals. Um, that's another thing I'm, I'm learning to break through the overthinking and just see, just do supervision, just do the consultation.
So definitely open to that because I enjoy, I really enjoy that for sure.
Whitney Owens: Wonderful, wonderful. And then, but Wendy, you're also a member of the Wise Practice Membership community. Can you talk a little bit about how that's helpful for you in your.
Bewindi Jackson: So, oh my gosh. Wise's consultation is such a safe space for faith-based professionals to get together and learn, learn from Whitney who shares her experiences, her talents, her knowledge.
Um, I really, it it's, it's li it is it, it is your space. It is, it is my space as a therapist to just meet with other like-minded. Faith-based therapist, um, to learn everything like yesterday's message was so on point in what I needed in terms of faith and business, in, in terms of how do you incorporate faith in your business planning.
And you had a model that was so, like, I, I can't wait to get the slides from the site. . And there's the other thing too. We have a a specific website where we can have the resources and go back and get the slides, but you had the slide about you. There's you with your talents, your giftings, your passion. I may be saying this wrong and then there's God in the middle, but how are you planning along with.
The scripture, how is your planning, your business planning and your goals aligned with God's direction of the Holy Spirits leading, um, or how he's gifted you to do what you are doing? Uh, and so that was like so good because when I hear people talk about business plans, it is, it has always been overwhelming.
I have never been able to answer the questions. What do you see yourself in 10 years, 20 years? I don't know, because I understand. That man may make many plans, but God determines our steps. Like I understand that and so I just, I just love if you are a faith-based practice owner and you, you feel lonely because you can't really talk about what you do with your priority to glorify God in your work with everybody.
This is the space to come in. Last year I missed a lot of the wise consultation because it was just a busy season for me, and I just could. Fit out, fit, fit in that hour. Um, but every week I think it's such a great, it, it's, it's not expensive, um, but it's so rich in the information that you're gonna get from it.
And I really enjoy it. It's, it's, it's a, it's, it's a blessing to me. So, Thank
Whitney Owens: you. Well, it's a blessing to have you. You're such a good addition to the group and an encourager is who I think of you as, so I appreciate you being a part of it. Thank you. And yes, it's a special place for faith-based practice owners to come together.
We meet every Wednesday at one o'clock Eastern time and we cover different topics related to starting and growing a faith-based practice. And then everyone has a small group that they're a part of to be able to grow together with like-minded practice owners. And like you said, the courses are in there.
Paperwork for your practice. And a community to ask questions and grow together. And it's been a real joy for me to see it and be a part of it. And, um, y'all are just so encouraging and wonderful. So thank you for making the investment and being a part of the group. My
Bewindi Jackson: pleasure. Thank
Whitney Owens: you. Yeah, so I am gonna be opening up the doors again for Wise Practice.
Um, and it's gonna be the very beginning of February. So it'll be Wednesday, February 1st, and the second and third through Friday. The doors will be opened and then we will close those. So I haven't opened the doors since August, and so only do it a couple of times a year. So if you're interested in joining Wise Practice, make sure that you head to my website, whitney owens.com.
There you can get all the information for memberships. You just click that tab, get information about Wise Practice. You can join the email list, so you get first access to wise practice, and then when the doors open, also on that website, you can just click the button and you can join. Um, I do offer a refund if anybody joins and they don't like it or they're not getting a good experience or they need to cancel.
Like you always have that option, but the truth is you're gonna love it and you're gonna wanna stay. But I know it's scary to join things and you worry if it's gonna work, and I never want someone doing something that's not working for them. So, so you know, you always have that option. You can just email me and no questions asked.
So I would love for you to consider joining Wise Practice. I'm looking forward to 2023 and all that it has to offer. And, but Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today.
Bewindi Jackson: Thank you so much, Whitney, for your for, for having me here.