WP 56 | Therapy Group Myths and Truths with Carrie Haynes
Building Thriving Private Practices & The Power of Group Therapy with Carrie Haynes, M.Ed. LPC, Founder of The Art of Groups.
In this episode, host Whitney Owens and therapist Carrie Haynes discuss the challenges and benefits of building a private healthcare practice. They delve into the practical aspect of managing paperwork, credentialing, and insurance procedures, while also emphasizing the importance of delivering excellent care to clients. A key focus of the conversation is the power of group therapy, especially in creating supportive communities. Carrie shares her guidance on how to run groups effectively, emphasizing the importance of consistency and persistence. They also discuss the structure of payment for these groups, touching on both insurance and private payment situations. Additionally, Haynes shares about the 'Circle Work'- a psycho-spiritual group work practice that she organizes twice a year.
In this episode of the Wise Practice podcast, the host interviews Carrie Haynes, an expert in group therapy. The discussion revolves around the challenges and myths associated with group therapy in private practice, the benefits of group therapy, and how to effectively integrate it into a practice.
Key Points Discussed:
Client Hesitancy Toward Group Therapy: The conversation touches on why clients might be hesitant to participate in group therapy, including concerns about confidentiality and not wanting to share or hear other people's problems.
Therapist Beliefs Impacting Group Participation: Research suggests that the number one reason clients don't participate in groups is due to the beliefs of clinicians and staff about group therapy.
Education and Experience in Group Therapy: Both the host and Carrie discuss their educational experiences with group therapy and how it has influenced their practices.
Myths About Group Therapy: Carrie addresses common myths about group therapy, such as the belief that clients do not want group therapy and the importance of educating clients about its benefits.
Pricing for Group Sessions: The episode covers how to price group sessions, with suggestions to look at the local market rates or consider charging half the individual session rate.
Persistence with Clients: Carrie emphasizes the need for persistence when suggesting group therapy to clients, advocating for a long-term approach, and not being deterred by initial hesitation.
Insurance and Group Therapy: The discussion includes how insurance can be used for group therapy, how to make group sessions lucrative, and the benefits for both clients and therapists.
Actionable Takeaways:
Visit Whitney Owens' website for networking and marketing resources.
Consider the benefits of group therapy and how to communicate them to clients.
Look into local market rates to set appropriate pricing for group sessions.
Be persistent and educate clients about the value of group therapy.
Explore insurance options for group therapy to make it a viable part of your practice.
Show Sponsor
Alma - Your private practice support system
Links and Resources
Art of Groups Web Page: Carrie has 2 spots available in my November Cohort for Group Practice Owners who want to add groups to their practice, and 3 spots left in my November Circle Facilitators Retreat.
Connect with Whitney Ownes on Instagram
Check the podcasts on the PsychCraft Network: PsychCraftnetwork.com
Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio.
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WP 56 | Therapy Group Myths and Truths with Carrie Hayes
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Building a private practice can be challenging. Building a caseload, attracting clients who are the right fit, managing the business side of your practice. There's so much to navigate with insurance and billing and paperwork. It takes a significant amount of time and energy and that's all in addition to delivering great care to your clients.
That is why Alma gives clients the tools they need to build a thriving private practice. When you join their insurance program, you get credentialed within 45 days access to enhanced reimbursement rates with major payers. They also handle all the paperwork from eligibility checks to claim submissions and guaranteed payment within two weeks of each appointment.
In addition to their insurance program, Alma offers time saving tools and administrative support so you can spend less time on paperwork and more time delivering great care to your clients. To learn more about building a thriving private practice with Alma, head to helloalma. com slash wisepractice.
That's helloalma. com slash wisepractice.
Hello, friends, and thanks for hanging out with me on the wise practice podcast. You are listening to episode number 56, where I interview Carrie Haynes Hayes. Hey, scary haze on therapy group myths. I actually just recorded two episodes back to back, so I'm still, uh, getting my words together here. Um, I love Carrie.
She's got this real like presence about her and it's so calming. Oh, she's just wonderful. So you're really going to enjoy the interview I did with her. She's got tons of experience on groups and she has a lot of knowledge that she brought to the table. And I personally benefited from the conversation because we're thinking about doing some groups here at my practice.
So make sure that you stay tuned for that episode, um, before we get into it, I realized I haven't talked about this in a while, but if you have not gone to my website and grabbed the four tips to networking and marketing with therapists, make sure that you do that. My website is whitneyowens. com.
There'll be a pop up there. This will allow you to have a free PDF because. Who knows how to talk to pastors, it's complicated at times, but it actually can be a lot more simple than it has to be. And so I want to make sure that you grab that PDF so that you can walk through those tips. This also pushes you on to my email list and.
I do not like being on a lot of email lists. We all hate that. And so the thing is, I make an email list that's beneficial to you and helpful to you. So sometimes you're going to get an email about content and helping you grow your faith based practice. Sometimes you're going to get information about me and running my practice and I'll share a little bit about my experience as a consultant.
Or you might be getting free deals or just discounts on amazing services that you were already using in your practice. So please make sure that you get that PDF so they can put you on my email list because I'd love to stay in touch with you. If someone responds to an email that I send out, I get those emails.
So if you're getting those emails on the email list and you respond to me sharing more about yourself, I love getting those emails. I personally read them, respond to them because I love getting to know you, the faith based practice center. All right, so we are going to go ahead and jump into the episode with Carrie Hayes on therapy group myths and truths as you look to start groups in your private practice.
Today on the wise practice podcast, I have the amazing Carrie Haynes with me. She is a therapist, educator, and consultant. She's the founder of the art of groups and creator of the art of groups podcast. She has spent her career specializing in group work and is passionate about supporting therapists and healing guides and facilitating transformational group experiences.
She truly believes the powerful work can change the world. Carrie, thank you for coming on the show today. Thanks for having me, Whitney. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit background about you before we jump into talking more about some of the myths within group practice work. Um, but tell us about your practice a little bit about you.
Okay. Well, um, about me. So I am now in private practice and do mostly consulting. My background was at the University Counseling Center at Colorado State University. I spent, I think it was about 13 years there and my main role was in facilitating groups and teaching and training, doctoral, um, counseling and social work interns, how to facilitate groups and to I led their group program there for all of those years.
And it was in graduate school that I just fell in love with group work and. Then took a leadership role and I was just really fortunate to be in a counseling center that valued group work and we would run around 26 groups a semester successfully, they would be full and I would manage. We had no problem getting our groups going.
And sometimes people are like, how did that happen? And there are a lot of keys, but I didn't even know, um, what a kind of utopia group. group place that was until I came out into private practice. So now I spend a lot of my time helping other people get their groups going because that definitely wasn't the case when I stepped out and saw that people were having a really hard time, uh, getting groups going, sustaining a group program.
So I just take what I learned there and, and teach other people. Um, personally, I have two young kids, 10 and 12. And, you know, my partner, Jeremy Sharp, uh, always joke around and tell people that group therapy changed my life because not only did I find my career passion, but Jeremy and I met in my first, um, Yalom based group therapy class.
Yeah. Oh, that's I love that. Yeah. Jeremy was on the show maybe like two months ago. Um, and it was a wonderful episode. Oh, I love y'all. I'm like, and when people ask me if I could ever meet anybody. I wanna meet Yalom. Wanna meet Yalom? Yeah. Yalom definitely has changed my life. That is the basis of the group work that I taught and trained so many interns and trainees in was M's.
Interpersonal process, group therapy, and that big book, you know that they call Yes, the Bible of group therapy. Um. That that was the foundations of my group work. Wow. Well, I know you're not going to quite say it like this, but I will say that's very impressive that you had so many successful groups running at one time and you definitely have what it takes and can teach us how to do that.
So I'm excited to kind of learn some of that because I actually am also working on a group, um, and trying to kind of decipher if I should do that in my practice. So you can kind of show off some of your skills today as you kind of teach me. Um, but let's talk about some of those myths. Like what are some of the myths that you see about having groups in your practice?
Yeah. Yeah. This was so important and it's funny cause I carried a lot of these myths myself and it took me learning about group therapy to, to start to dispel them. So the first myth that Most people have is that clients just don't want group, they just don't want group therapy. They want individual and I'll have a therapist tell me my clients come in and they want to meet with me individually.
They don't want to do group. And that is true that. But the myth about that is that clients don't know what they want. because they're looking to us as experts. And so what happens is, yes, of course, clients want individual therapy because they are not educated and they're looking to us to say, what's right for me.
And usually if therapists understand the benefits of group therapy, then all of a sudden the clients are way more open to it. But You know, this is an interesting thing, Whitney. So tell me what you think is the number one reason that clients don't participate in groups, like just based on your experience or what you think, like you've heard in the past.
Why do you think? Lots of things. Yeah. A big one is I don't want to hear anyone else's problems. Yes. Okay. Because maybe it would weigh them down or you think they're, yeah. Okay. What else? They don't want to share their problems with anyone else. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. confidentiality. Yep. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Yep.
And they also just don't want other people in town to see that they're at this group. More people will know. They come to therapy in general. Yes. Yes. Mm-Hmm? . Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And see all of those things I think do factor in, but what I found was the research says that the number one reason that clients don't participate in groups is because our beliefs.
Us as clinicians, staff beliefs about groups. Okay. So, so now listen to me, cause we come by it, honestly. So think about your graduate school experience, right? You. Went to school and how much time? I mean, for me, I had one group therapy class. What about you? Actually, I had a really cool experience. So we had the group prep.
We had the group counseling that you talked about. We went through the y'all group book and then we actually did groups as part of the class. So we did our classes were 3 hours. So we'd have an hour and a half of instruction and then we have an hour and a half of group work and they would bring in previous people who had taken the class to to lead the groups.
So I was so fortunate. My professor invited me back after I had taken the class to lead 1 of the group. So I kind of got to 2 group classes and it was. So interesting to do it with therapists, right? Like they are such fascinating people to watch. Yes, yes, yes. And was it a good experience for you being in the group or was it a bad one?
Um, maybe an in the group was fine. I actually don't have a ton of memories of that. I had a lot more memories of leading the group because I enjoyed it so much. You did? That's great. That's great. Well, even that, though, I feel like for some people, the experience that I get, and I did that. So for a few years, too, um, I was on faculty at the University of Northern Colorado and at CSU, where I was the one who facilitated the group experience that was required.
So they, they were required to participate in a 10 hour group experience. And in some of these universities, they did a process group with each other. For some people, it was absolutely painful because they were. With their classmates and their colleagues, and if you're doing interpersonal work, you're telling the truth about how you feel with each other.
And that could be intense when we have peer relationships. Um, I still think it's wonderful learning. Uh, the experience of being in a group is. So much more, but going back to the myths is that a lot of us did not get a lot of experience or training and group work compared to what we learned an individual.
So we spend hours and hours pouring over our individual cases, getting supervision. We're have, you know, uh, videotaped. Uh, you know, sessions and we're picking through everything we say and then our group experience feels like, you know, this little blip. And so group already starts out in our graduate training as there's some bit that it's kind of second rate treatment that maybe once your individual slots are full, then you should start a group.
And so we already start to devalue group work, but what the research shows in every study. I mean, there's like. 32 well controlled experimental studies and group therapy is as effective or more effective than therapy for most concerns. Now there are a few, and I'm not saying group is for everything, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm trained in EMDR.
I've done, um, other types of, you know, individual therapy that I do think is very, very valuable, but our beliefs, we just come by them honestly and thinking if group is as effective. If group is going to be as helpful, why would I only spend one class? Why would my supervisors not be talking about it? You know, so we're already sort of biased towards individual therapy culturally.
And then that translates to our clients. Yeah. I'm also thinking about other group work. It was when I was in my internships. Then when I worked at psychiatric hospitals, right? So it's these facilities. And so it kind of, I almost think of group work is what you do when you're at a facility. Yeah, people.
And then how did you feel like your training and supervision was in those facilities? It was pretty good, actually, but most of the time it's not right. I mean, I hear terrible stories, but I worked at a residential treatment facility in Atlanta. And so it was fabulous because we had individual clients and they were the same ones that we led groups with.
Right so we got to see them on both of these levels, which was really good work for the clients. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so awesome. And did you facilitate the group with like a senior facilitator or like, how did you learn by doing in that? Yeah. So I sat in on a ton of groups for a long time and then they let us lead them ourselves as interns.
Well, I'm glad you're I'm glad your experience was good. Unfortunately, I hear over and over again that people go into these environments where they're working with maybe the highest security clients that they've ever seen. And they have eight of them in a room, and they're thrown in as an intern to facilitate a group.
And so you wonder why therapists don't want to lead a group. That's kind of a traumatizing experience. Like it's hard enough to, to be working one on one with a high acuity client, but then you add eight and very little oversight or supervision. So I find that well trained and well supported therapists who actually have the support to learn how to do group work, which is really different than individual work.
They enjoy it. They, they, they like it and they feel like, Oh, it is effective because I actually got training and support on how to facilitate a group and not just do individual therapy in a group setting. Yeah. Now I do have a question here for you. Yeah. Do clients get triggered by the other people in the group.
That's what I'm, I'm a little concerned about and I hear that question a lot. So the group we're thinking about doing is an adolescent eating disorder group. And it's because we have an influx and we can't get all these people in with a therapist and there's no 1 in town right now. That's doing that for adolescence, but we're worried that they're going to hear everybody else's anorexia or binging or whatever, and then start to feed on each other and like.
What do you have to say about that? I do think that is a particular concern in an eating disorder population, but I know that there are ways to mitigate that. So I actually had someone that you might want to listen to who was on my podcast, her. She trained with me at CSU and then now she is the director of an eating disorder program that is group focused.
I think Illinois, her name's Dr. Laura Oyer, and she does talk about how she manages that. And so there are certain guidelines, like not talking explicitly about behaviors, certain ways, and that they set up the guidelines in the group to minimize the triggers and also to be really explicit. Because if you think about it, like These people who are going to come into group, they don't live in a vacuum.
So if they're going to be triggered in the group, it's great that they're triggered in an environment where you can be there to support them and talk about it. Cause they're on Tik TOK. They're on Instagram. Their stickers are in their lives. And so that's the thing that I think is a beauty of group therapy is that we.
Want to create a group where the things that happen in our lives happen in the group, but we have the support to actually make those explicit and work through them. So we don't want to have a group that actually, uh, keeps people from being triggered. It's great to get triggered. That's where the work happens and that group so effective and maybe more effective than individual because it actually becomes like a lab.
Whereas we talk about it, sometimes an individual in the group, we get to actually experience it. It's happening right here, right now. I'm having this feeling of comparing myself to you. And this is how it feels. This is what's coming up for me, right? Like that kind of authenticity and work that can happen in a group.
We know that that exposure therapy makes results happen much quicker. So I think it would be amazing to do that and then to speak explicitly about the potential for that to happen and get it out on the table and come up with some agreements. Around when that happens, not if I love everything you just said, and it's very y'all on me too.
Yes, yes, yes, the here and now is so important and I would find that clients that I would see. So this is it. That's another myth about group therapy is that other people's issues are going to weigh me down when actually people worry about that but what I found is if a group is facilitated well. Bye Hearing about other people's struggles actually makes me feel less alone, makes me feel more like, Oh, I don't have to be perfect.
Um, it makes me feel like maybe this isn't me. Maybe this eating disorder that I'm dealing with is also also a cultural issue that I just have a piece of, and it's less about something being wrong with me. And how powerful is that? And until it's that all day, but when you sit and you see other people and you realize like, this is, this isn't my fault.
This is part of the culture that I'm in. And if I can extend grace and compassion to this other group participant, can I extend it to myself? Right. And you're bringing up so many good things. I mean, the healing that happens in relationships as we speak into each other's lives. I mean, a lot of times clients expect their therapist to say the quote, right thing, you know, but then when you have a member in your group who doesn't have to speak up on your behalf, speak into your life, tell you that it's okay, that this is the culture, all those things.
It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, that is one of the most powerful parts is I would tell stuff to clients, you know, and then they go to group and say, you know what someone said to me, it's like the thing we talked about, you know, three weeks ago, therapy, but the power of having somebody that's not, you know, paid, paid to help you in that way.
Yeah. It just, it has a real deep, um, impact a lot of the time from peers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, great. Well, do you have any specific recommendations on getting groups going? If someone's listening or myself thinking about starting groups, any specific things that you see as a problem? Yeah. So another myth is people will say groups are hard to get organized.
That is true. Again, like all these myths have an ounce of truth. Um, but the reason that that is so difficult is it's not because of the group. It's because of the way we go about trying to organize a group. Now, you don't seem to be having this problem. So I feel like you're already on the right track. A lot of places that I see is they will come up with this beautiful idea for a group.
And then they'll book a flyer. And yeah, offer it out to the community and like everybody's like, this group sounds awesome, but crickets, right? Nobody comes. Well, it doesn't mean the idea is bad, but the first thing I would say is you want to make sure that you have at least three people who are in your current practice or in your caseload that are needing the group that you're offering.
Yes, you have that, you know, then you've already got like a little bit of momentum. And the thing that I notice is like people might sign up for a yoga class from a flyer, but for a group therapy experience, the reason they sign up is because of their relationship with you. It's because a therapist or the person that they know, unless maybe you're Brene Brown and you wrote a book, you know, people go to her group.
Right. But, but otherwise, like for those of us, like the relationship really matters. And so I would say, start small with a group of clients that have, uh, Uh, something in common that you feel like you could really help and get them on board. And then the next place I would go is to other therapists who know, like, and trust you because that have clients and they're not offering that group because that would be the next best referral source.
And then start once you get five. I'd say start, even if your group isn't full because a group that started is more attractive than a group that's waiting to get started. And so a lot of times people are waiting and they're losing the people who were committed. So start small and then stay consistent.
Don't I've also seen people who offer an eating disorder group in the fall and then they decide they want to offer a women's group in the spring and then they want to offer and there's no traction. So you need to really get known in your community as. Oh, Whitney's practice has this amazing group for eating disorders, and that's the go to.
And I just know that I can get people on the waitlist for that group, and it starts to create momentum. So don't give up when it's small right at first, but just get it started. And a lot of times people do this by, you know, if you're a group practice owner and maybe you only get four worst case, um, then just cut it to an hour and put one of your clinicians in there, you're still going to make it more lucrative.
They still get the benefit of having each other. And then once that group grows, you can stretch it to an hour and a half and add a second co facilitator potentially or a trainee who wants to learn. Yeah. And eight members. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. That's really helpful. Um, so another question I get a lot about groups is pricing and insurance.
So does insurance cover groups? How does that happen? And then what, if you're a cash pay practice, how are you charging for a group? Yeah. So great questions. I think that insurance is a real bummer around groups, unfortunately, because. And it really doesn't make sense because if you think about it, if group is as effective and it can be more, uh, cost effective for clients.
And, you know, the insurance company is paying less and getting more treatment because usually groups can be an hour and a half. It kind of doesn't make sense, but I think it's based on all those myths that we have about work. Just to give you a fun fact, the reason that group work is also devalued just to name that adds into this insurance is because.
It was harder to research, so that's where we have that individualistic model. We could research individuals, but to try and research an entire group and deal with all the variables, it was too difficult. So our, when we were trying to legitimize ourselves as, you know, psychology as a profession, we moved to more individualistic treatment to kind of evidence based to prove it.
And that's when groups really got even more devalued. So what I would say for practice owners who are using insurance, I usually, so I do work with practices and I help them do the systems as well as the clinical training, because I think you can have a great system, but if your therapists don't know how to run groups, people aren't going to come back.
If your therapists are passionate and great group facilitators, but they have no idea how to get people in. We're gonna have a problem. So I have them take the average of their insurance based reimbursements and find out what that is. Depending on where you are and what your contract is, it can vary anywhere from as low as 15 to as much as 45.
So I would have you look at that and see, you know, if 80 percent of your clients have one insurance, what is the reimbursement rate and then how many Bye People do you need to have in a group to make it viable? Um, and then see, um, I have not had a practice yet in all the practices that I've worked with that did not have group be more lucrative than individual.
Oh yeah. I was always more, more lucrative, but some of my insurance based practices would have to only do one facilitator to make it more instead of two, or they do one facilitator with a trainee, like somebody who. Right. So that's what I would say to do. And insurance will reimburse for group work. And, um, it, you know, it ends up being lucrative and it ends up being more cost effective for the clients.
So you could do that if your private pay. You are really, really fortunate. It's very, very lucrative. And it's like very rewarding because what I also notice is that staff love it because their days get mixed up and they get to collaborate with their colleagues and it just adds a lot of juice. So I would just look in your area and see what the average rate is.
Cause you know, I had a practice that I worked with in California. And their group rate was, um, the average was 90 a group, um, here in Colorado, closer to 50. A group, um, where I am. So do you know what it is where you are kind of the people? Yeah, I've seen some people throw some groups up there. I can't say I know for sure what the average is.
Um, a rule of thumb I always heard was to charge half your individual rate. I could see that. I do think, though, you kind of want to be in line with the market in your area. So looking around and seeing what groups are going and what are they charging? Where are you? Um, because, but it might bear out to around half, I think, if I'm looking at the average, so.
It's a good rule of thumb. Yeah. That's great. Anything else that we've missed that you want to make sure to mention about pricing or just about groups in general? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Um, the other piece that I would say is that, you know, really being persistent with clients and not just mentioned in group ones that really, this has to be the long game that the first time you mentioned group to a client, they're going to.
Oftentimes be hesitant and to not look at the hesitation as, um, that actually it's not the right thing that sometimes we need to talk with them over and over again, and that the more we believe in group. So, to me, it kind of is this, the more training you get and positive experience you have, the easier it is, is to continue to talking to clients about it because you believe in it.
Yes, allowing yourself to not take no. Um, and I often have very playful interactions with my clients because they know that I love groups. So I'll say, you know, I'll be in the middle of a session and they'll be talking about an interpersonal dynamic and I'll say. You know, this is why I think group because that would actually happen in the group and you could work through it in real time and then bring it back to me.
Whereas I'm not going to get that experience to be in your home and, um, they'll say, Oh, Carrie. I know. I know. And I'll say, all right, well, I would just consider it. I'm going to be opening it back up in this time. And this is why. So I just, you know, there are people who it's taken six months and I, I don't invalidate their concerns.
I validate their concerns, but I continue to challenge them because. You know, the thing that I found was that there were a lot of times where I would work with clients and I would feel overwhelmed, like I didn't know why life was, was sending them kind of the challenges that they had. And sometimes I would feel like, how am I going to help this person?
But the thing that I knew, and you probably can think about this for your clients, is that the clients that I had, no matter what life threw at them, that had strong interpersonal relationships. A really strong support system that knew how to connect with others. They always fared so much better and that's what therapy teaches people, like regardless of coming that connection.
And if we can give clients that, that's something that will last forever, no matter what life throws at them and that they can create those networks in their life. So that's what I would add is just like, don't give up. Because we all need connection and community, even though we're afraid of it. And that's true for our clients too.
I have loved this, you know, I love how you're speaking to the structure of all this, but you're also speaking to the heart of it and I can see it all over you. And it's, it's so beautiful. And yeah, it's one of the best things we can give is teaching clients relationships. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Carrie, I know you're doing some other work even outside of consulting on bringing groups into practices.
You're doing work on a program called circle. Is that correct? Circle groups. Okay. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? And then how can people get in touch with you if they're interested in working with you for consulting or to join a circle group retreat? Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So circle work is the name of it.
It's a modality that was created by, um, Jelaja Bonheim, and it's just more of a psycho spiritual type of group work. So, if anyone is interested in bringing in more meditation or movement, somatic practices, spirituality. Um, that is the type of work that circle work is. So it takes all that group process stuff that we talked about, the relational component, and it combines it with these other modalities that we know are really powerful for intra personal work as well as interpersonal.
And, um, I offer retreats, uh, twice a year. That's called the circle facilitators training. And you could just go to my website at art of groups dot com. to learn more about them. They're here in Colorado and it's just a really, really deep immersion into experiencing, uh, circle work. And I feel like when we get it in our bodies and we really know what it's like in our hearts, then it's much easier to recreate it for our clients.
So if anyone's interested in that, and if there's any group practice owners too, that. are thinking I should get groups started. I can help you do that. So I have a program. It's really, really limited because I'm walking hand in hand. I don't just like give consulting information. I'm there. I meet with your staff every other week.
I clinically train you. I give you all the systems. I help you create a group coordinator so that you can grow your group program. Um, and What I give will just be repeatable. So then you can start with maybe three and then build it up. So all of that is that art of groups. com. Um, you can come and learn more and hopefully the podcast is also helpful.
If you just kind of want to get some free trip tips and tricks on group work. Um, there's a lot at the art of groups podcast and it's on all the major, you know. Podcast server station. So, yeah, awesome. Yes. I've seen it and enjoy it. So I'm looking forward to finding that episode specifically about the eating disorder groups.
Thank you for that. Yes. Thank you. I think, I think if this group's going to be a go, it feels like you've got all the right components. Yes, I just need my staff to pick up all the pieces and put them together. Yes, because I'm not doing it. Um, right. That's that. That's another thing about what I work with group practice owners is I'm like, this is a program that I can just take for you and you can go do your thing and know that I'll get it going with with one person on your staff because group practice owners have enough on their plates.
They can't. They can't add this thing too. So being married to one, I feel like I have a good, unique inside perspective at like, How that they might need one less thing to do, you know? Yeah. Yes, definitely. Well, this has been my pleasure. I've loved it. This is going to be a great podcast episode. So I appreciate all the content and for you sharing your life with us and looking forward to more conversations in the future.
Yes. Thank you for having me, Whitney.
