Ep. 43 | You Deserve an Award with Leo DeBroeck
Introduction
Welcome back to the Wise Practice Podcast! In this episode, host Whitney Owens is joined by Leo DeBroeck, the founder of the Counselor's Choice Award. They discuss how this award recognizes counseling products, therapy tools, and ethical private practices. They also delve into the world of continuing education for therapists and counselors. Leo's unique journey from engineering to child mental health specialist adds depth to the conversation.
Leo's Background and Inspiration: Leo grew up in Washington State, witnessing the impact of economic fluctuations on mental health within the community. His desire to help people led him to the mental health field, where he has over 10 years of experience. He emphasizes the importance of faith in his work and mission, which eventually culminated in the creation of the Counselor's Choice Award.
The Birth of Counselor's Choice Award
Leo shares the origin story of the Counselor's Choice Award. It began with the need for children's therapy books that address specific issues. Leo's commitment to offering therapists and counselors reliable resources led to the creation of this platform. Counselor's Choice Award reviews counseling products, therapy tools, and even private practices. The aim is to ensure that therapists have access to quality resources that can genuinely benefit their clients.
Supporting Ethical Private Practices: Leo discusses how Counselor's Choice Award extends its support to ethical private practices. Recognizing that many therapists struggle with the business aspect of their practices, Leo and his team help therapists distinguish themselves by assessing factors such as specialties, policies, and clinical resources. By doing so, therapists can attract clients more effectively and uphold ethical standards.
Bridging the Continuing Education Gap
In the conversation, the topic shifts to continuing education for therapists. Leo acknowledges the prevalence of subpar courses and emphasizes the importance of quality education. He shares his own experience of teaching CE courses and unveils the Counselor's Choice Award's role in providing accredited courses. The platform enables therapists to offer engaging and informative CE courses without the hassle of marketing and logistics.
Taking the First Steps
Whitney and Leo discuss how therapists can get involved with Counselor's Choice Award and its offerings. Whether it's applying for the award, providing quality CE courses, or accessing numerous resources, therapists can take advantage of these opportunities to enhance their practices.
Key Takeaways:
Quality Over Quantity: Counselor's Choice Award focuses on recognizing and promoting quality counseling products, therapy tools, and ethical private practices to better serve clients.
Continuing Education Reimagined: The platform offers therapists the chance to provide accredited CE courses that stand out for their content and educational value.
Ethics and Expertise: Private practices can benefit from Counselor's Choice Award by demonstrating ethical standards and showcasing their expertise in specific areas of counseling.
Action Steps:
Apply for Counselor's Choice Award: If you have a counseling product, therapy tool, or run an ethical private practice, consider applying for the Counselor's Choice Award to gain recognition and distinction.
Explore Continuing Education Opportunities: If you're a therapist looking to provide CE courses, collaborate with Counselor's Choice Award to offer valuable education to your peers while earning passive income.
Prioritize Quality: In all aspects of your counseling practice, prioritize quality over quantity, from resources and tools to ethical business practices.
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Links and Resources Mentioned:
Conclusion
Join Whitney Owens and Leo DeBroeck on the Wise Practice Podcast as they discuss Counselor's Choice Award, ethical private practices, and the future of continuing education for therapists. This episode offers valuable insights and opportunities for therapists to enhance their practices and provide quality care to their clients.
Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio
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Whitney Owens: Hello friends and welcome back to the Wise Practice Podcast. I have a great guest today and we're gonna be talking about the Counselor Choice Award. And you might be thinking, what is that? Well, you're about to find out. How you can get an award as a practice owner or nominate your friends that are practice owners.
Whitney Owens: Um, and also with that, talking a little bit about continuing education, which I'm gonna say that almost every day somebody's asking me about continuing education. Um, in fact, this morning right before on my way to work, somebody was asking me about getting CEUs. So we're gonna talk about that as well. Um, but we have Leo DeRock on the show today and lemme tell you a little bit about him and then we'll get started and getting to know him.
Whitney Owens: But he's the founder. The Counselor's Choice Award and it reviews counseling products and therapy tools. Offers a free accredited continuing education courses paid by donations, so that's good. It also helps distinguish private practices who follow ethical business practices. Leo is a child mental health specialist and a licensed mental health counselor in the state of Washington.
Whitney Owens: Thanks for coming on the
Leo DeBeBroeck: show. Thanks for that, uh, wonderful introduction. I feel like there's a really high bar now, Uhhuh. I dunno if I'm gonna be able to meet, but, uh, it's, it's an absolute delight to be here. Thank you for having
Whitney Owens: me. Of course, of course. Well, why don't you first kinda share a little bit more your personal story, how you kind of gotten into this work and
Leo DeBeBroeck: about yourself.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Yeah, so I kinda grew up in Washington State and still am kind of here, and I grew up in a community that had one employer, like a lot of places, Boeing. So if you've ever flown on a 7 47, a 7 87, like I. You probably was made in the, here, in the Washington area. And, uh, as a result though, as there's ebbs and flows in the economy, so were there ebbs and flows with how many people are buying planes and traveling, so, mm-hmm.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, you could, you could feel the heartbeat of the city based off of things like that, and there'd be these big layoffs and as a result, mental health problems would, you know, drastically increase. And then the economy would kind of speed up and things could get better. Um, Because, uh, as a result, you, you could kind of, you could see those effects of how, you know, social economic status and income affect just families' wellbeing and things like that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: So from there I ended up, uh, thinking, well, I'm gonna do what everybody does in this town. I'm gonna go be an engineer. And I did that for, uh, a little bit, uh, you know, in school and things like that. I'm like, you know, this is really fun, interesting stuff. And then I realized, I, I, I wanna help people. Uh, you know, building planes and things like that helps in some ways, but, um, I, I really just wanna be able to, it's the cheesiest thing I know, but like, I wanna be able to help people, um, to help people, if that makes sense.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Mm-hmm. Uh, so as I kind of went on, I, I went into the mental health field. I've been there for about 10 years, uh, doing everything from intensive inpatient, like you said. And, uh, I get bored easy. So then I went to, uh, you know, community mental health and all these different areas and, um, Uh, uh, it's been an adventure and I've really kind of enjoyed the, the variety.
Leo DeBeBroeck: So I've also was kind of, we're getting to, uh, been teaching with, uh, Eastern Washington University for large number of years now, since, uh, 2017. Oh. Uh, yeah. And, and that's kind of helping the next generation of therapists and counselors to be able to, um, know what they're walking into in some sense. Um, has been really rewarding work, uh, and.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, uh, as a result of that, you know, my family is all very, um, uh, very strongly faith-based. I've got a bunch of nieces and nephews that are all, uh, you know, very, very close to Christ and things like that. And, um, as a result, it's, uh, kind of all blurred together. Uh, sometimes the, the work as well as the mission.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Um, you know, uh, but uh, yeah, that's, that's kind of my background where I'm, where I'm coming from exactly.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well thanks for sharing that. And it is so true, like, um, that's the whole like, basis of the podcast is the idea that Faith is merged with our work. Like these things go hand in hand. Mm-hmm. Um, and the mission that we feel that we're called on.
Whitney Owens: All right. So, okay, so you're teaching now and then you've created a company to help therapists, correct?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Yes. So, uh, counselor's Choice Award is, uh, something I started in 2020, so there was a. Uh, side project I did, there's a bit of a backstory where, uh, me and a couple of coworkers, we all said, you know, there really should be children's therapy books to help with this issue and that issue because kids love stories, they love games.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, why don't we have more books that like, can help specifically with that? And you know, there's a few here and there. And I said, yeah, you're right. Somebody should do that. And then I realized long, early in my life, there is no such thing as somebody. It's not how that works. Um, so I created some children's therapy books, um, and it was a great rewarding experience.
Leo DeBeBroeck: And then something happened where, uh, one of my books, which is on, uh, drug addiction, uh, that happens in families, I. And it's about helping, right? Very serious content. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not a fun, easy, happy book. There isn't a happy ending because that's not how things really work in life oftentimes, uh, at least the kids that make it to my door.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, so, uh, I was, uh, published that I self-published that book, and, um, Uh, Amazon told me, Hey, you can't market this book. We're not gonna make you take it down, but the content is too serious for us. And I'm like, excuse me. I'm sorry, like, uh, but it kind of brought a big point, which is a lot of places I wanted to, 'cause I was gonna publish it, but I couldn't.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Mm-hmm. Uh, because a lot of people are like, this isn't gonna sell. And to be fair, they're right. Like, I've lost far more money than I've made on that book, but, um, they're right. They, it doesn't sell. Um, it doesn't. I can't advertise it. I've been able to parlay with them about it. But, uh, it is serious content and, uh, it's very specific audience.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, and it kind of got us talking, uh, me and some of my coworkers about, uh, you know, there really needs to be, A way that therapists can know whether something is, is good content, something that is actually helpful to clients. 'cause there's a lot of stories and books out there that have these happy, nice knitted little endings and it just doesn't work that way.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Like sometimes, yeah, like someone gets cancer and they die. There isn't like a, uh, there isn't a miracle for everybody. And then that's, that's not. A bad thing that's sometimes part of the bigger plan and picture, and there needs to be comfort in that too. Um, and uh, as a result though, you don't want to be pulling up a, a story about someone you know, beating cancer with.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Because that's just not necessarily the, the case most of the time. Um, and same alcoholism is a terminal illness, if not treated, um mm-hmm. Things like that. So that's where stage enters counselor's choice award because we said, you know, someone, someone should have a, a tool, a review process, something to help us be able to recognize what's a good tool and what isn't.
Leo DeBeBroeck: And you're like, and that's when I said, oh. Someone should do that. So we started this and then we uh, you know, we, we took different tools and therapy books and a lot of children's therapy books. 'cause that was where I was an expert in, uh, and started reviewing them. So, uh, take for example, a Boystown Press, which is, uh, are publishing, uh, they have a whole.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, uh, segment of their website dedicated to books that have gotten Counselors Choice Award, um, to help other counselors recognize, uh, what that is. Mm-hmm. Uh, so that's, that's, that's kind been how it started is, you know, someone should help therapists find good tools, uh, and someone did. That's right.
Whitney Owens: Well, those are the best businesses, right?
Whitney Owens: They're, they're created out of our own passion and our own, what we see the need for. And so I love that you saw a need and you went and you created a
Leo DeBeBroeck: business around it. Yes, exactly.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, it's that challenging. I know a lot of people think about, oh, maybe I should create a business, like something on the side with my private practice.
Whitney Owens: Like what would you say to
Leo DeBeBroeck: that? Um, I would say, uh, Side hustles are great. I would say that a hundred percent. Like I think everyone should have some sort of side hustle. It's, it's, uh, sometimes energetic and rejuvenating. Um, I would say don't be afraid in some way. Like for example, a Counselor's Choice award is, is free, like to apply.
Leo DeBeBroeck: And a lot of people are very suspicious of that. Like, how can that be? Well, we're donor based, like I'm doing this out of my passion and my desire to help people. Um, you know, and, and other people. And we get a good number of donations are doing the same as well. Not everyone can pay and I get that, but as many people pay it forward as they can and that helps cover our costs and cover, uh, you know, time of our reviewers so I can be able to reimburse them for their time and things like that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: So I would say everyone should have a a, a side business. Because whether it be pro bono work, um, you know, as, as counselors and therapists or something that they're looking to get some, some income from.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Definitely I feel the same way. Like my, my consulting business gives me energy and excitement for the work I do.
Whitney Owens: So yeah, it feels good. Same idea? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So you kind of talked a little bit about maybe resources that are reviewed by the Counselor Choice Award. Are there other things that y'all
Leo DeBeBroeck: review? Yes, so we expanded, uh, over into, uh, private practices and that's kinda where I connected with you because what we found is a lot of therapists.
Leo DeBeBroeck: They struggle with, with the business side because that's not something they were trained in, right? Mm-hmm. So they reach out, they find other people, you know, to advise them and things like that. But one area that is kind of lacking is, uh, being able to. Uh, help distinguish themselves. So, uh, you know, I, I can't make bad, uh, therapists, you know, look bad, but I can make good therapists look good.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Right? Okay. And that's been, for example, there's some people out there that they'll say, oh, I'm an expert in. A D H D and working with children and working with pediatric, and I'm an expert in grief work and I'm like, you cannot physically have the amount of time to be an expert in all those things, but it's because they're struggling to get.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, you know, clients, so they're just like, well, I'm gonna list that I'm an expert in everything, and, you know, oh, that's just unethical in my, my brain. Like, I get it. You're doing it because you want to help people and you, you feel like you've got the skill sets, but you also can't claim yourself an expert in an area that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: You don't have much training in. Um, so basically what we've done with private practices is to help them say, Hey, uh, we'll work with you. Like, we'll, if you want some extra coaching on how to be able to do this, uh, we will be able to make you kinda look more distinguished. Do a review of your website. You know, where are you posted?
Leo DeBeBroeck: There's lots of places people look for therapists. If you're trying to, if you're doing this for a reason, 'cause you're looking to, you know, attract more clients. Um, I. You know, have, uh, have more people that you want to be able to help. That's a noble cause. Um, and there's a right way to do that. So as we, we do that, we, we say, Hey, if you wanna apply for Counselor's Choice Award, um, if you're not, You know, we're asking a, a bunch of these different areas, such as where are your specialties?
Leo DeBeBroeck: What do you do with your no-shows? Like, do you charge a fee for that? Um, if so, how much, uh, when people are on your wait list, if you have one, do you offer any clinical resources, even just like books or things like that? Or do you just say, okay, I'll talk to you in. You know, six months. Um, do you consult, and if so, like how often do you do consultations?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Is it regular or only when you feel stuck with a client? Um, things that anyone who's trying to start a practice should kind of think about and start doing. Uh, and if they're not doing it, that's okay. We, we have our, our client lists, most of us are, have our own private practice, uh, and we'll help them get that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: And then once they meet that standard, or if they're already meeting it, We can help with getting their website to be more. Recognized by doing different things, uh, for, uh, search engine optimization. Uh, our biggest thing right now is we, when we give the award, we do a social media blast, you know, uh, on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, like wherever they want it.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, we'll, we'll blast out, put it on our blog. But what's most important and what most therapists don't realize, because. I don't have training in it is how search engine optimization, ss e o and how important that is, um, to get recognized. That is the billboard of the internet, right? That is how people find you.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Um, it's, it's like, you know, in old golden days saying, uh, being listed in the phone book, if you're not in there, people aren't gonna find you. If you don't have a good ss e o, uh, you don't exist to the search engines.
Whitney Owens: I totally agree with everything you said. Um, and I did have an couple of s e o people come on the show because it is, it's the number one way people find my practice for sure.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, that's what gets kind of funny, you know, we're having a conversation about, I. Ethical practices, good therapists, helping people find those, which is really important. But at the same time, some bad therapists can be found as long as they have good ss, e o. So it kind of, it gets kind of funny, right?
Whitney Owens: If you can market yourself well, you can grow your practice. Of course your practice might not stay full. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I wanna go backwards 'cause I had a question. Um, you were talking about being an expert and I think this question comes up a lot with therapists. What constitutes someone
Leo DeBeBroeck: being an expert?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, so we have sort of a scientific method of reviews for that because when you submit your application, then I have kind of a list of, uh, volunteers mostly and, uh, and a few people that, um, uh, uh, that I'll kind of reimburse for their time that are experts in that area. Most of them are people that have volunteered their time after they won the award and like, I'd love to help, I send them that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Who are experts in those areas because I ask them. Yeah. So then they can kind of give me information to say, Hey, what constitutes that? So I'm an expert in child mental health and that is because I have well over a hundred hours in uh, CE courses, just just dedicated to children. And that's. I mean, that's not really that hard to do if you think about it.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Like that's a few, uh, that's just a few days over the course of a few years. Um, uh, to get a hundred hours worth of training that, um, Uh, that is what kind of constitutes me as an expert is I've got the training and I've done the work experience. Um, you know, I, I cannot call myself a pediatric specialist.
Leo DeBeBroeck: I don't have the training and I don't have quite the experience. I've done it, and I would definitely know enough to know I can't call myself an expert. So those are kind of the areas. Do other experts say you're an expert? Do you have the work experience and do you have the trainings, you know, different coursework, um, to, to be able to back that up.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. All really great points there. Yeah. Okay. So what you're saying is private practices can apply mm-hmm. To get this award. So how does that work? Like they go to your website or I. What kind of work do they need to do on their end to get the award?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Yes. Uh, so that's a, from 90% of people, it's gonna be real straightforward.
Leo DeBeBroeck: You go to counselors choice award.com, uh, or just Google it. We've got a pretty good Ss e o uh, and then at the top of the page, there's an apply now where you can scroll down, uh, and then you can see the different types of applications, uh, application to be, uh, for a product or. Or private practice or group practice.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, we've done ones for much bigger institutions, kind of multimillion dollar, um, uh, inpatient hospitals and an application if you wanna become one of our continuing education, uh, course providers as well. So you click on that, it takes you to the form and it just asks you really some basic questions just to give our, our reviewers a good idea.
Leo DeBeBroeck: They look at that. Um, but it's a very simple process. You just fill out a form, it's free. Doesn't cost anything to do it. Great.
Whitney Owens: Great. Okay. And so you just kind of mentioned the continuing education, that's another piece to the puzzle here,
Leo DeBeBroeck: right? Yes. Uh, so that was another one of those things, the conversations I've had with, uh, you know, my peers saying, you know, ever since 2020 there's been a lot of bad CES out there.
Leo DeBeBroeck: I mean, we've all taken them, you know? Oh, I know. Mm-hmm. And I can't make the bad ones go away, but I can make the good ones look more distinguished. So I've been teaching CE courses for a large number of years now. Um, and, uh, Uh, you know, I've, I've also had some very interesting experiences. I'll say. Um, I've had my courses stolen from underneath me.
Leo DeBeBroeck: They took my recordings, they sold them to other companies. Um, and then I searched for my, my, yeah, I do a, you know, health checkup on myself. I Googled myself. I, I check to see, are my recordings all posted? And sure enough I find them. I'm like, I didn't sell to you. Excuse me. How did you get my course? Um, And they're like, oh, this other person sold it to me.
Leo DeBeBroeck: And I'm like, who is that? Oh gosh. So, so like I said, there's bad actors out there. And I'm like, well, okay. And then I worked with another company, um, based in California where they sign for exclusivity, not only to your, uh, course that you teach right. But to anything related to that content. I saw their, I, they were trying to poach me as well, and I'm like, excuse me.
Leo DeBeBroeck: No. Yeah. Um, so I. I've been actually, uh, trying to work with people who've worked for them and they tell me, I'm sorry, Leo. I cannot ever teach anything related to this course material again without paying them a cut, even though I've done my dissertation on it. And like that is evil. Like mm-hmm. Um, because they didn't know what they were doing.
Leo DeBeBroeck: They were naive to the business side. So I'm like, well, I can't make those places go away. Um, the people who are catching these, you know, kind of business naive. Uh, therapists, but I can help distinguish them. So now I have, uh, my own. Courses. And, you know, I'm like, well, I've already made these courses. I offer them for either free, they've got a ton of free N B C C approved credits or next to nothing.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Um, and then a lot of other people have kind of reached out saying, you know, I'm, I'm interested in posting 'em here. And I'm like, that's great. You know, you'll get some passive income, uh, for, for the, the courses and you have to do no work whatsoever. And in fact, Um, if you want to be able to get your courses up at other places that also don't sign for exclusivity like I do, I sell it like nine different places.
Leo DeBeBroeck: We'll help you with that too. So it's, it's a, it's not just about giving out free courses, it's about kind of changing the whole business, uh, environment that exists around CEEs to be more focused on quality and less focused on, uh, how do I put it? Just being a shark, just, just, Trapping people when the whole mission is to, you know, give out CEEs, that, that help people be better therapists.
Whitney Owens: Hmm. That's so unfortunate, right? I mean, we, if you've got good content, you should be able to continue to work that content, right? Because you're helping
Leo DeBeBroeck: more people. That's, that's the business side of it. It's better for me though if I trap you where you can only sell it by giving me a cut. So it's, it's, it's nasty business there and I'd like to change that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Someone should do something about it, right?
Whitney Owens: Someone should. Okay. And so when a. I see on your website that someone can apply to be a CE provider with y'all. So can you
Leo DeBeBroeck: talk about that? Yes. Uh, so that's the main way we get our, our providers is that, uh, on our website we have an application that says, you know, are you an expert in this area?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Um, have you taught the course before? Uh, have you already signed away? Stuff. Um, and there's sometimes there's ways to get around certain things by making it adjacent to, uh, mm-hmm. But, uh, the one place in California, they, they, they have in the clause specifically nothing that is adjacent to or relate anyway.
Leo DeBeBroeck: So, uh, just as really simple questions, just so that I can kind of get an idea of how serious you are about it. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, uh, once they apply, I, I meet with them or send them over, uh, you know, videos for how to do it themselves. And then what will happen is one of two things. They'll either record themselves during their no shows, kind of giving them material.
Leo DeBeBroeck: I call it a chalk and talk 'cause there's no audience. They can do it in little snippets whenever they have time. Uh, you know, doesn't take all that long Once you know what you're doing. Or they'll kind of more popular version is me or one of my team members. We'll meet with them just in the same way we're doing here and record it and they'll have an audience of one.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Who is also another therapist or counselor who can ask relevant questions. And people seem to really like that 'cause it's, it's kinda hard to give a lecture to nobody, if that makes sense. Um, but, uh, uh, yeah, and then, then we put it up on the sort, uh, on our website, get it accredited, um, and then they get passive income and we get more material to be able to provide to, uh, to provide to our, our different, um, audience members.
Leo DeBeBroeck: So it really doesn't take more than like for me to make a one hour course. It takes me maybe less than four hours, including the recording of it. 'cause I've been doing it for such a long time. Um, I just did one a couple weeks ago from the time we came up with it and said, Hey, do you wanna do a course?
Leo DeBeBroeck: To the time it was finished, published post-test questions done. Everything was less than, uh, about five hours worth of work. Um, including making the slides because they're already experts in the area. They know what their material is, right? They don't really need to do a lot of, uh, uh, research on it. They, they live it.
Whitney Owens: Totally. Totally. Well, that's so great and it's, um, I'm sure there are people listening who think, oh, I'd like to provide Es, but I, you know, it seems like a lot of work, so it's like going through your company makes it easy. It's a good first step to see how they like it.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Yes. Uh, it, it's way easier than you think, which is in some ways bad because that's how you get so many bad courses.
Leo DeBeBroeck: But, um, you know, we'll, we'll guide you through it. We won't let you, we won't publish something that's not, not good. Um, and we take good care of all of the work people, or, well, how do you get it accredited? How do you, does it gonna meet all the requirement standards? Like we will guide you through all that.
Leo DeBeBroeck: We've got templates, we've got, uh, you know, examples to go through. It's, it's, it's straightforward. Trust me.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, it's easy when it's something that you love. Right? I like that. Yeah. When you're feed feeding into your passion, um, I actually have. I overloaded myself with presentations. We're recording this in May.
Whitney Owens: Yeah. I have like multiples. I'm doing, I don't know what I was thinking. Um, and I'm getting other people to make all the slides 'cause that's just gonna take me too long. Mm-hmm. But it's what you're saying, it's like I don't have to really prepare. I can talk about it as if it's nothing because I talk about it all the time.
Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. You know, and so it's, you know, even for a therapist, maybe they have their assistant make slides for them, you know, and do all that prep work. Um, because all you need is a few slides to cue yourself to know what to say.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Exactly, and even more so, uh, you know, if you're meeting with somebody, they can just ask you questions, you know what I mean?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Yes. Like, uh, that's kind of what we, uh, uh, a more interview format and it's a little atypical, but literally I'll make the slides for them and it'll just be a list of questions I have because I know nothing about. X, Y, or Z. Um, so all they really have to do is sit back and talk about what they love and I get to learn about how to better help clients because now I'm asking the questions that, uh, I think our audience members would wanna ask too, as a therapist.
Right,
Whitney Owens: right. Well, all of our guests, when they come on the show, offer something for free or some kind of low cost item. And obviously you have lots of good free stuff. Oh, lots likes, like we've already talked about it
Leo DeBeBroeck: lot. I have. Uh, you know, over like, I think like 13, 15 hours of free ces plus a bunch that are like under 10 bucks, uh, which, you know, might as well be free.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Like, yeah, there's, there's lots of the free application. Like we're, we're really donor based. Um, we, we, that's what keeps the lights on for us.
Whitney Owens: That's right. That's awesome. Wonderful. Well, Leo, is there anything that we didn't cover that we, you wanted to make sure to mention today?
Leo DeBeBroeck: Uh, you know, I, I do wanna mention one thing, which is that anyone who's spending the time to listen to this podcast, you're doing all right.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Like, if you made it this far in, uh, I want to thank you for your time because it is a valuable thing that you've given to us, uh, and that, uh, I, I, I really do respect that. And I want you to remember you're doing good work if you're the type of person who's looking to improve yourself and improve your practice.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Thank you. Uh, And, and I think only people who are willing to do that have made it probably this far in.
Whitney Owens: Well, that's very insightful and very true as well. So Yes. Well, thank you for that. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show. And then for people who are listening, it's counselor choice awards.com.
Whitney Owens: Precisely. Okay. So easy to remember. Um, so make sure that you head over there and check out the free resources. And Leah, thank you for your time and for the work that you're doing for being a somebody in the world.
Leo DeBeBroeck: Oh, it's a delight. Thank you so much.
